Canadian Collectors - PCGS VS ICCS

candy2012mustang

HI-

I have a few Canadian coins that I want graded either by PCGS or ICCS. It seems to me from what I have read that Canadian collectors like ICCS - but to a US collector like myself they seem really shady. No website - no submission form - just a address and a phone number that i found on somebodys post on another forum. I have a feeling that if Iwere to send in my coins to them they "wouldnt arrive" - not saying that somebody at ICCS would steal them, but I have had a lot of trouble sending coins out of the country.

I like PCGS Secure on my foreign coins because of the scanning technology, etc. Does PCGS recognise rare varieties of Canadian Coins?

If so, I may submit my coins in person along with my other foreign coins at the Philly ANA in August.

Pokermandude

Sounds like you've already made up your mind. IMO the out of country shipping is a pretty big deal and could easily swing a decision based on where one lives. To be honest, even with the pricey secure plus fees, I'd likely send my coins to PCGS if I lived in the USA. But living in Canada, I will likely end up sending mine to ICCS or perhaps CCCS.

coinkat

Hate to say this but depends on the coins, their look and what you plan to do with them- keep them and continue collecting Canada or sell them

I would choose PCGS over ICCS

candy2012mustang

I'm mainly interested in seeing who (of the US TPG's) will attribute a rare variety on a Canadian coin?

coinkat

Seriously- call PCGS and ask-

Fountainhead

PCGS. You don't want to mess with the extra customs forms at the post office.

candy2012mustang

I'm going to try and call iccs tomorrow - I called PCGS and they didnt recognise the variety I was asking about.

YQQ

depends what your rare variety is...
ICCS only will cerify very few of them . They must be obvious or well known.. otherwise it is a NO NO for them
However, Louis at CCCS doe certify most common sense varieties..
if it is a nice valuable coin he whas hard slabs... very attractive.
If you intend to sell the coisn... ICCS is the place.
am very curious what the coin is and the variety...
can you tell? maybe post pictures?
who knows... could save you a lot of money..

WorldTypeSet

I chose PCGS back when my focus was on Canadian nickels.

syl

Most high end collectors choose PCGS because of the slabs, website, international acceptance and possible registry set angle. However, they certify very few Canadian varieties, no matter how well known or established .. and when they do, there is a goodly premium to pay for the service. ICCS is well established in Canada, since it was essentially the only game in town for years. However, their flips are not tamper-proof, they have no website, they are hard to contact and US customers have the customs/duty aspect to sometimes deal with. Brian has started, in the last year or so, to certify many varieties of nearly all denomination that he would not touch before. ICCS is essentially a 2-man shop and they get easily overloaded during certain periods.

A newer Canadian TPG has started in the last 3-4 years ... CCCS out of Montreal (or close to it). It is run by Louis Chevrier and has excellent slabs, a very good website/tracking system, and they specialize in certifying varieties that other TPG's won't touch. I, personally, do not use any TPG because, in my specialty of Victoria Large Cent Varieties, I think that I know more about the coin than any TPG would or could. I'm also not in to "bright and shiny's". Most collectors of Canadian material that I know are pretty evenly split as to which service that they choose.... Each of PCGS, ICCS, and CCCS with about a 1/3 slice of the collector population when variety collecting is thrown into the mix. For high end personal collection stuff, PCGS probably has about 50% of the market, with ICCS about 1/3, and CCCS about 1/6. CCCS is gaining market share for collectors and ICCS is dropping. However, if you are a dealer trying to sell Canadian material to Canadian collectors, ICCS has, by far, the biggest market share by at least a 4:1 margin. If Brian Cornwell and his son, Scott, (ICCS) ever get a website to be able to track certification numbers, hire additional graders to speed up turn-around, and utilize hard slabs that are tamper-proof, then they may be the TPG of choice again up here North of the border for collectors .. right now, they are not.

YQQ

Bill made a very true statement of the way it is. Simple facts.
Too bad ICCS is not with the times. High speed access to date is essential today...

DoubleEagle59

<< <i>HI-

I have a few Canadian coins that I want graded either by PCGS or ICCS. It seems to me from what I have read that Canadian collectors like ICCS - but to a US collector like myself they seem really shady. No website - no submission form - just a address and a phone number that i found on somebodys post on another forum. I have a feeling that if Iwere to send in my coins to them they "wouldnt arrive" - not saying that somebody at ICCS would steal them, but I have had a lot of trouble sending coins out of the country.

I like PCGS Secure on my foreign coins because of the scanning technology, etc. Does PCGS recognise rare varieties of Canadian Coins?

If so, I may submit my coins in person along with my other foreign coins at the Philly ANA in August. >>



One correction I'd like to point out - ICCS is not shady.

They are behind the times with their holder and lack of website, but they are very honest and ethical people.

Now to answer your question.....

You being in the US, should definitely stick to PCGS to grade your Canadian coins.

US collectors absolutely prefer PCGS graded coins to ICCS.

On the flipside, the majority of Canadians who collect Canadian coins prefer ICCS over PCGS.

Senex

I'll second the "not shady" vote for ICCS, they are highly respected among collectors of Canadian coinage.
But they have the following drawbacks:
Poor holder
No web site
Shipping coins to Canada from the USA is a dicey proposition.
Can't be sold as "certified" on eBay USA
PCGS is the gold standard among US based TPGs with NGC running a close second and I would feel confident about sending coins to them (by registered mail of course )

candy2012mustang

Thanks for the info guys!

As for the shady comment - I can't find any published info by ICCS (phone number or address that is not a secondary person writing about them). I know nothing about how they handle coins. Their holder su%ks. No cert verification as far as I know. No website. So compaired to PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG in a US collectors eyes ICCS seem kind of shady.

But, I called the number listed other places and they were very nice and accomidating (maybe moreso than our hosts).

But, I dont collect Canadian coins personally - & would say they would be for resale eventually.

Tomorrow I am packing up a package to ICCS.

2 day service is $35 - So I'm sending my coins express mail by USPS to them - they will get it & return my package late next week.

DoubleEagle59

<< <i>I have done a little business with ICCS in the past getting some pieces reholdered and I didn't have any problems, with the exception that a reholdered half dollar came back and the reholder was cracked from jostling in shipping. Definitely not shady. I never had any problem with Customs either coming or going, but some shipments from Canada to the USA took upwards of five weeks to get here.

Here's my take on PCGS vs. ICCS:

1. ICCS holders suck no matter which way you slice it. With ICCS it is difficult, if not impossible to reach a live person.

2. When buyingTPG graaded circulated coins I would buy in an ICCS holder if you want grading accuracy. If buying a circulated piece in a PCGS holder knock 10 - 15 points off the grade for mid-grade pieces when considering your bid or the price. All of the ICCS-graded pieces that I crossed over to PCGS for registry purposes graded 10, 15 and sometimes 20 points higher. However, IMHO ICCS has lost their touch in the last few years and are putting plenty of problem coins in holders without comment.

3. I prefer PCGS for mint state pieces.

4. Ultimately, you have to know how to grade circulated Canadian pieces yourself if you want to know the price you should be paying. >>



I agree on most everything.

However, in over 10 years I have never had a problem talking to a 'live' person as long as you call between 8am to 2pm during the week.

They close at 2pm, however quite often they are at the office at 6:30 am.

candy2012mustang

The package is out to ICCS as of yesterday via USPS express mail (usually overnight - but to CA they say 3-5 days) SO they should recieve the coin early next week.

I chose their 2 day service for $35USD - It is coming back Registered which is going to take a bit longer than 3-4 days, but I only need it back for the Philly ANA in August.