Superb report by Laura. She explains the give and take action between the bidder, the dealer rep (her) the opponent bidder. Priceless education. if you know anything about that StacksBowers auction, you will become aware that she is determined to do the hard work to sift through the endless number of proof walkers at the StacksBowers auction. I tried to do that with the mint state walkers and threw up my hands after 90 minutes.
I saw Laura at the beginning of the Thursday night auction. Just simply shook hands. Usually I have a lot to say but this time there was absolutely nothing to talk about. For me, Laura knows I am just in a holding and waiting position, just accumulating funds waiting for the right coins to come along. She and I agreed earlier in the year that I would just have to wait until the ANA at which time SOME of the oright coins will POSSIBLY come along but not until then.
Until then, I am content buying estoteric and unusual medals, old sample slabs, old slabs, etc, etc. I am having fun!
My one purchase in Baltimore? I bought a 1936 Buffalo nickel in a PCGS/CAC rattler holder in MS-65 for $65!!! It is a beauty.
Those that do not buy coins in the highest end category should still read and learn all about that market even if they do not currently participate in such market. Even if you feel you will never participate in such market that is ot reason to not have an appreciation of how "the other half lives."
What if you win the $100 million lottery? Or make a killing in other investments? Never say never!
Wahoo - we made the Legend report - chat room weenies!!!!
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
'the phenomenal $10 1885 PCGS PR66 DCameo CAC. can't find these anymore. This coin is going overseas to a very astute collector. An interesting story about the coin, we first saw it at the PCGS Invite a few months ago. The dealer who owned was asking $130,000.00 (we know others who got quoted the same). We paid $92,000.00 all in!'
That seems a cheap price.......
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I don't have any idea why she went through several paragraphs to explain Legend's bidding strategy for a customer for the "MS69" UHR, and then posts a buy offer in red font below that for a PROOF 68.
Thanks for sharing. It was very interesting. The buyer should have went with Laura's $$$$$ figure estimate as his max bid then he/she would have gone home with the said UHR instead of his $2.4 M . How's that saying go again? " Hindsight is always...."
Summer Baltimore shows usually are slow. And in down markets as we've seen the last couple of years, they are usually the pits.
Fresh and cool coins are still the hot ones. No surprise there. Everyone wants to buy coins that have been off the market for 10-20 yrs, are potentially undergraded/underpriced, and knock your socks off in the process. Sure, if everyone could constantly buy and sell coins like these there would never be a weak coin market. When a new firm named Fresh Numismatics appears on the scene, you know we've reached the summit. Clearly, there is still room for improvement.
You don't know that the winning bidder would not have gone 2.5 MM with another bid. She was out of position at 2.3 MM unless her buyer was willing (and TOLD her) to go 2.5 MM. That said, we do not know how high the winner was prepared to go. It is an amazing coin, I hope it does not disappear for a long time from view.
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
We keep hearing how you have to stretch for the world's best coins, sometimes 20, 30, 50, even 100% sometimes. This is the finest PCGS graded $20 UHR out there so one would think that for an extra 4-10% it was worth the "stretch." But that assumes the buyers feel confident that the market is moving higher on this coin as well in the near and/or long term....and that this specimen would have to be clearly superior to all others. Guess, in the end this coin wasn't "stretchable." Shouldn't matter whether it's graded 68 or 69. And based on the price realized it does seem that it was being valued as a 68 or 68+. Not being willing to cut a bid for 2% doesn't quite seem to fit the logic for great coins that we constantly hear about.
Seems like an opportunity was lost considering this coin was worth $2+ MILL as a raw coin and was estimated at $2.55 MILL hammer. Wonder why they just didn't buy it for inventory since they are always looking for great coins....plus this was one that got away from them at the 2005 Morse sale? If the market is as good as they say wouldn't there likely be a buyer somewhere in the wings after the sale at some higher number? Then again, this was only off the market for at most 7 years and therefore wasn't quite 10 yr fresh. We'll have to wait for the memoirs to find out the real scoop though. My gut tells me that even with a bid of $2.45 MILL or $2.5 MILL, it would have been bid higher.
<< <i>I love reading these reports but then always end up feeling how silly I must be collecting my little crappy coins. >>
I've gone the other way. I think a good many of those people are fools to be spending big money on coins, and am happy where I am in the hobby. Like some long time collectors have expressed in recent threads, coins are inanimate objects. In one conversation, a daughter was startled that dad did not list coins in his top five most enjoyable hobbies or leisure activities, even though coins are likely number one or two in terms of money spent. If people want to blow big money on nice coins, that is fine, but I don't let their decisions ruin my enjoyment of the hobby. As I said before, if I had that kind of money, I think I can find much more satisfying ways to spend it, than six or seven figures on a cold metal disc, in a plastic holder.
I agree with Laura that good coins are hard to find. I recently bought a Peace dollars that I spent a year trying to find. I looked through hundreds of Peace dollars in that time and ended up paying way over sheet for mine. I could have gone to any show and bought a crappy coin within 5 minutes of getting there for a lot less. Dreck is cheap but really nice coins go above sheet.
If I could buy a pop 1 PCGS PF69 seated quarter, half or dollar for only 20% more than the cost of a solid 68, I'd be there all day as long as the 69 had eye appeal. Sometimes, you have to step up and buy the plastic as well. And fwiw, this is the best UHR in a PCGS PF69 grade. When another gets there, then we can discuss which is better. I've seen Legend mention numerous times in their coin descriptions that they wouldn't care if a coin were graded X or Y. They'd love it even a grade higher. Clearly, they and many others buy the plastic (and stickers) as well.
If everyone only wanted to buy top 5% or cool/fresh coins, the market would soon fall apart. Someone has to buy the other 95-99%. Hmmm, back to the 1%ers again.
<< <i>I love reading these reports but then always end up feeling how silly I must be collecting my little crappy coins. >>
Do you think the people spending what many would consider a fortune on coins are having any more fun than you? I doubt it, enjoy what you collect, aspire to better pieces but don't let what other people are buying get in the way of enjoying your hobby.
<< <i>I love reading these reports but then always end up feeling how silly I must be collecting my little crappy coins. >>
Do you think the people spending what many would consider a fortune on coins are having any more fun than you? I doubt it, enjoy what you collect, aspire to better pieces but don't let what other people are buying get in the way of enjoying your hobby. >>
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
<< <i>If I could buy a pop 1 PCGS PF69 seated quarter, half or dollar for only 20% more than the cost of a solid 68, I'd be there all day as long as the 69 had eye appeal. Sometimes, you have to step up and buy the plastic as well. And fwiw, this is the best UHR in a PCGS PF69 grade. When another gets there, then we can discuss which is better. I've seen Legend mention numerous times in their coin descriptions that they wouldn't care if a coin were graded X or Y. They'd love it even a grade higher. Clearly, they and many others buy the plastic (and stickers) as well.
If everyone only wanted to buy top 5% or cool/fresh coins, the market would soon fall apart. Someone has to buy the other 95-99%. Hmmm, back to the 1%ers again. >>
The coin was not accurately graded in our (and many other dealers') opinion. I heard as low as 67+ and as high as low end 68. It's hard to get a client to step up when you are honest with him about the true quality of the coin and when he knows his high end 68 that he bought for under $2M is a nicer coin - even when he does really want a pair. And while solid for the grade coins get stocked all the time, it's difficult to envision dropping a coin two grades to get there and still coming out ahead financially.
The ultra rarities tend to be ranked and not technically graded. I see it all the time with the 1804 dollars.
Interesting read- I think her point is well taken on too many shows-
I enjoy attending shows and believe they provide an education that you really can not get elsewhere- Reducing the number of auctions would probably help as well.
I think there are bigger issues to be concerned about-
1. Demographics; and
2. New generations just do not seem to appreciate or have a connection to numismatics which seems to be very problematic for the long term.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Hmmm "rank grading" or "census rank grading."
Never thought of it that way. >>
Any time you have a low number of something that's a natural.
I'm a seated quarter specialist - lots of issues in the series where I can tell you the top three or four coins and what something should be worth based on the sales prices of the others. The plastic plays a part, but most of the discussion is on the aesthetics of the individual coins.
The 1907 pr69 was not "off the market" since 2005. If Im not mistaken its been shown around and been offered for the last 7 years by 2005's winning bidder.
bronzemat
Posts: 2,605 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>It's a pleasure to read a Legend market report that is not filled with anger ... very nice. >>
Agree. I wonder who wrote it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I saw Laura at the beginning of the Thursday night auction. Just simply shook hands. Usually I have a lot to say but this time there was absolutely nothing to talk about. For me, Laura knows I am just in a holding and waiting position, just accumulating funds waiting for the right coins to come along. She and I agreed earlier in the year that I would just have to wait until the ANA at which time SOME of the oright coins will POSSIBLY come along but not until then.
Until then, I am content buying estoteric and unusual medals, old sample slabs, old slabs, etc, etc. I am having fun!
My one purchase in Baltimore? I bought a 1936 Buffalo nickel in a PCGS/CAC rattler holder in MS-65 for $65!!! It is a beauty.
Those that do not buy coins in the highest end category should still read and learn all about that market even if they do not currently participate in such market. Even if you feel you will never participate in such market that is ot reason to not have an appreciation of how "the other half lives."
What if you win the $100 million lottery? Or make a killing in other investments? Never say never!
That seems a cheap price.......
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>Wahoo - we made the Legend report - chat room weenies!!!!
Was that Stewart Blay's thread she is referring to?
<< <i>Agree. I wonder who wrote it.
It was written by Crazy Eddie: "WOW! Did those coins go insane!!!"
(those from the NYC area will understand the reference)
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
Fresh and cool coins are still the hot ones. No surprise there. Everyone wants to buy coins that have been off the market for
10-20 yrs, are potentially undergraded/underpriced, and knock your socks off in the process. Sure, if everyone could constantly buy and
sell coins like these there would never be a weak coin market. When a new firm named Fresh Numismatics appears on the scene, you
know we've reached the summit. Clearly, there is still room for improvement.
Seems like an opportunity was lost considering this coin was worth $2+ MILL as a raw coin and was estimated at $2.55 MILL hammer. Wonder why they just didn't buy it for inventory since they are always looking for great coins....plus this was one that got away from them at the 2005 Morse sale? If the market is as good as they say wouldn't there likely be a buyer somewhere in the wings after the sale at some higher number? Then again, this was only off the market for at most 7 years and therefore wasn't quite 10 yr fresh. We'll have to wait for the memoirs to find out the real scoop though. My gut tells me that even with a bid of $2.45 MILL or $2.5 MILL, it would have been bid higher.
Mike
<< <i>I love reading these reports but then always end up feeling how silly I must be collecting my little crappy coins.
I've gone the other way. I think a good many of those people are fools to be spending big money on coins, and am happy where I am in the hobby. Like some long time collectors have expressed in recent threads, coins are inanimate objects. In one conversation, a daughter was startled that dad did not list coins in his top five most enjoyable hobbies or leisure activities, even though coins are likely number one or two in terms of money spent. If people want to blow big money on nice coins, that is fine, but I don't let their decisions ruin my enjoyment of the hobby. As I said before, if I had that kind of money, I think I can find much more satisfying ways to spend it, than six or seven figures on a cold metal disc, in a plastic holder.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Sometimes, you have to step up and buy the plastic as well. And fwiw, this is the best UHR in a PCGS PF69 grade. When another gets there, then we can discuss which is better.
I've seen Legend mention numerous times in their coin descriptions that they wouldn't care if a coin were graded X or Y. They'd love it even a grade higher. Clearly, they and many
others buy the plastic (and stickers) as well.
If everyone only wanted to buy top 5% or cool/fresh coins, the market would soon fall apart. Someone has to buy the other 95-99%. Hmmm, back to the 1%ers again.
<< <i>I love reading these reports but then always end up feeling how silly I must be collecting my little crappy coins.
Do you think the people spending what many would consider a fortune on coins are having any more fun than you? I doubt it, enjoy what you collect, aspire to better pieces but don't let what other people are buying get in the way of enjoying your hobby.
<< <i>
<< <i>I love reading these reports but then always end up feeling how silly I must be collecting my little crappy coins.
Do you think the people spending what many would consider a fortune on coins are having any more fun than you? I doubt it, enjoy what you collect, aspire to better pieces but don't let what other people are buying get in the way of enjoying your hobby.
<< <i>If I could buy a pop 1 PCGS PF69 seated quarter, half or dollar for only 20% more than the cost of a solid 68, I'd be there all day as long as the 69 had eye appeal.
Sometimes, you have to step up and buy the plastic as well. And fwiw, this is the best UHR in a PCGS PF69 grade. When another gets there, then we can discuss which is better.
I've seen Legend mention numerous times in their coin descriptions that they wouldn't care if a coin were graded X or Y. They'd love it even a grade higher. Clearly, they and many
others buy the plastic (and stickers) as well.
If everyone only wanted to buy top 5% or cool/fresh coins, the market would soon fall apart. Someone has to buy the other 95-99%. Hmmm, back to the 1%ers again. >>
The coin was not accurately graded in our (and many other dealers') opinion. I heard as low as 67+ and as high as low end 68. It's hard to get a client to step up when you are honest with him about the true quality of the coin and when he knows his high end 68 that he bought for under $2M is a nicer coin - even when he does really want a pair. And while solid for the grade coins get stocked all the time, it's difficult to envision dropping a coin two grades to get there and still coming out ahead financially.
The ultra rarities tend to be ranked and not technically graded. I see it all the time with the 1804 dollars.
Never thought of it that way.
I enjoy attending shows and believe they provide an education that you really can not get elsewhere- Reducing the number of auctions would probably help as well.
I think there are bigger issues to be concerned about-
1. Demographics; and
2. New generations just do not seem to appreciate or have a connection to numismatics which seems to be very problematic for the long term.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Hmmm "rank grading" or "census rank grading."
Never thought of it that way. >>
Any time you have a low number of something that's a natural.
I'm a seated quarter specialist - lots of issues in the series where I can tell you the top three or four coins and what something should be worth based on the sales prices of the others. The plastic plays a part, but most of the discussion is on the aesthetics of the individual coins.