PM's vs Dollar philosophy's
perkdog
Posts: 30,594 ✭✭✭✭✭
I respect you guys who prepare for all hell to break lose but its in my opinion your better off with real money aka US Dollars, I mean is it seriously in the realm of possibilities that one day you will wake up and US Dollars wont be able to be traded with? Just good to burn for warmth??
Im just not following this repeated thought process here of needed a gram of a pm to buy something a few dollars wont. Maybe I live in a cave but I bet 95% of the population in the United States doesnt even have 10 cents worth of silver to begin with let alone Gold, the possibilities of PM's being the monetary system seems far fetched.
I would love to hear some explanations for someone like me to understand better!
Thank You
Im just not following this repeated thought process here of needed a gram of a pm to buy something a few dollars wont. Maybe I live in a cave but I bet 95% of the population in the United States doesnt even have 10 cents worth of silver to begin with let alone Gold, the possibilities of PM's being the monetary system seems far fetched.
I would love to hear some explanations for someone like me to understand better!
Thank You
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Comments
Your parents probably paid with silver coins for their bread.
2500 years vs 50 years of pure fiat.
Groucho Marx
<< <i>people learn incredible fast...remember that gold and silver has been used as money for for most of our civilized history.
Your parents probably paid with silver coins for their bread.
2500 years vs 50 years of pure fiat. >>
They paid for alot of things with Silver coins but that was in the 1950's and 1960's when all the change was 90% Silver
Groucho Marx
Again, the historical scenarios that bring the currency of a major power to zero tend to involve war or revolution, often accompanied by massive plague or famine. How much will U.S. paper money be worth when USA no longer appears on world maps? I'd guess about the same as Confederate paper money was worth in 1870.
War is expensive.
Old saying..."you can't have guns AND butter."
And from here one gets into a political discussion and that's a no-no.
If this were to happen, life would not be worth living. So why bother?
Its the weekend. Have fun today!!!
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>England reduced the silver content of their coinage after each of the world wars in the 20th century. And they were on the winning side. >>
Rome continuously reduced the silver and gold content of its coiniage until there was no more Rome. There will be dollars as long as there is a USofA. Question is "how do you protect your holdings of them (savings and investments) as they are slowly devalued by their issuers?" Currently, I do it with physical gold and silver. When the tides shift, so will my strategy. Zero interest rate policy (ZIRP) ensures that won't be any time soon.
I agree with street, let's keep the politicians out of the discussion.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>when USA no longer appears on world maps
If this were to happen, life would not be worth living. So why bother?
Its the weekend. Have fun today!!! >>
Please, go back and read some world history. Be objective not emotional. Pretend you are living in Europe or Asia or Australia and trying to estimate the probability of America continuing for the next 50 years. Again, look at a world map from 1900, or from 1800. Borders change. Countries disappear, some are gobbled up, new ones form, countries split up or join together. Like business cycles, these are natural human events and do not mean the end of the world. The U.S. has enjoyed over 200 years of the same kind of government, with mostly peaceful transfers of power, but history tells us that record is exceptional. If the dollar goes to zero, it might be due to civil war. The USA might split into several zones. Do you think the rest of the country wants to bail out California? Does Texas want to continue pulling the weight for much of the country? Do Spanish speaking people want their own political zone?
A more serious scenario would be the loss of a major war, perhaps with massive financial penalties ala the Treaty of Versailles. That could precipitate the downfall of the government, repudiation of all debts, devaluing of the paper money, and the dollar going to near zero. If you are telling me the the U.S. will never lose a major war, again, go back and read some history. Oceans worked pretty well in the last century. 21st century weapons nay not care about oceans as much. In that scenario, the USA might exist as an entity, but like Russia and their revolution, the paper money, the bonds became worth very little, and at some point nothing. Same with other countries that had revolutions. Life may have become very hard in those countries, but some left and continued on with their lives, some stayed and made a go of it. Many of the wealthy that stayed had everything confiscated and a trip to the Gulag.
Some in the OWS (Occupy Wall Street) movement would suspend the Constitution and go for that plan today: round up all the wealthy, confiscate all their money, and send them, their kids, their relatives and friends to reeducation camps. Even on this polite white-bread forum the traitor word has been tossed about, for minor disagreements over policy. Traitors get executed or sent to prison camps. Hunkering down is a foolish strategy, if that is a likely scenario. The 1% (wealthiest 1%) becomes the 5%, then the 10% and 20% when revolution comes, and enemies of the state are needed for scapegoating. Average coin collectors tend to be in the top 10% to 20% in terms of income and net worth.
If a person is old and frail, planning to leave may not be worth it. For those that are younger, or have kids, or grandkids it is worth thinking about, at least for that next generation. Again, 50% of the time TSHTF, leaving is the best possible move. For those that truly think the dollar is going to zero, think about what kind of war, or other big event might cause that. If it is the decline of Rome scenario of glacial decline, that fall took 400 years when people lived to age 35, so that scenario might not be worth worrying about, if it is ten lifetimes in the future.
Other nations will begin to challenge us around the world and dominance will fade as social unrest paralyzes the homefront. We will simple abandon the countries we occupy (dozens of them right now) and the corporations who have sucked them dry with the help of our CIA and military support will lose thier dominance as the dollar fades toward zero. The barbarians will be at the gates.
At some point it will stabalize but at a much different level. Most likely with a different form of currency, maybe with a different form of government. We have already changed from a Democratic Republic to a Socialist Democracy and our financial system has evolved from Capitalism to Fascism. The borders will still be here but a lot will be different.
Of course, timing is the big unknown, is this happenening in 5 years or 50 years?
"May you live in interesting times"
I do believe that the length and grip of this recession will have an equal effect (for at least 50 years) as the great depression had on people. The impression will affect two generations.
Every lesson that my father hammered into me about the misery of the 30's has lasted til now. Sometimes that misery can't be taught except by people experiencing it themselves. THAT is the good that will come out of this economic event.
<< <i>go back and read some world history. Be objective not emotional. >>
Unfortunately most Americans seem to think that (bad) history is something that can only happen in other countries. It's called a normalcy bias, and it's a real phenomenon that psychologists have described extensively. My father was born in 1940 in Nazi-occupied Poland, and in his lifetime virtually every major power has collapsed at one point or another - France in 1940; Germany and Japan in 1945; China in 1949 (with multiple spasms like the Cultural Revolution after that time); Russia/Soviet Union in 1991; Argentina, Brazil, and others, too many times to count. Somehow, I doubt that we Americans are immune to the events of history. We have two phenomenal advantages other major countries do not - relatively weak neighbors (Canada and Mexico), so no risk of war from them; and massive oceans separating us from China, Russia, Japan, Europe, etc. Those are real and durable advantages. We also have a political system which, for better or worse, has enough checks and balances to prevent a lot of the internal craziness that could possibly occur. Still, the likelihood is that we'll have something major happen in our lifetimes... the really unusual outcome would be "more of the same" in perpetuity.
Im in the camp that believes it will be pretty far fetched for the United States to fall apart as far as us losing a war ofcourse it could be possible to get bogged down in a conflict like Vietnam again somewhere in the world but like second republic noted the strategic advantage of our landscape makes it virtually impossible for us to be invaded and fall like the the Roman Empire ect..
One thing Im pretty confident is the United States "War Machine" will always be a focul point in our countrys policies. I garuntee that our long term thought process was to have a foothold in the middle East near the Oil in case of a catastrophic economic failure, I truly believe we would take that regions oil if it meant our demise was hanging in the balance, I dont think for one second Russia would ever strike us with nuclear weapons due to the massive response that would annihalate them too. Even if a devise was detonated in our mainland due to a terrorist attack it would not cripple us to the point of epic failure, China can get as strong as they want but they too would never have a nuclear advantage nor would they ever have the means to invade us, no matter if Russia supported them or not, our Air Forces and Navy garuntees that as well as our strategic nuclear forces do.
<< <i><< go back and read some world history. Be objective not emotional. >> >>
For most of the sheeple, history began the day they were born.
As far as nuclear war I think it much more unlikely than ever before. The recent Japan meltdowns has taught us that setting a fire in someones elses bedroom will most likely consume the whole house.
How about realistic. The the USA is not going to collapse in the next 50 years. If you review history, you will see the major differences between the USA and countries no longer "in existance".
And a collapse will not happen overnight. You will have ample time to prepare for the End of Days.
And I did enjoy the weekend. Here's a pic of my son and his pop-pop with the largest fish of his life caught on Saturday.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Hey Perkdog, my spouse frequently checks these boards, might you change the pictures on your blog? Thanks for the consideration. >>
Not a chance.
If your wife gets upset because of my sigline I think you might need to have a minor conversation with her on what is really offensive in life.
you just keep that sigline