is there anything left to grade in vintage?

raykasa

With the exception of cracking and resubmitting or sending in reviews for bumps, is there any vintage material left to grade? i mean material for grading with at least nm or better returns..I find it harder and harder to get lots or cards at my regular venues...your thoughts?

itzagoner

it's a pursuit which requires a heckuva lot of time and passion. you must be prepared to accept disappointments in greater supply than the cards themselves. it makes the nicest acquisitions that much sweeter when you get them, especially when you outbid or outfox a very capable opponent.

the answer to your question is yes. definitely yes.

raykasa

i do indeed enjoy the hunt; quite fun and challenging. But my thoughts are that there is no longer material out there. i mean there can only be so much high gradable material to exist anyway-right? So, are we close to the end of vintage grading?

YogiBerraFan

There are plenty of older collectors out there that just don't believe in 3rd party grading. Eventually those collections will hit the market. I call dibs!

raykasa

plenty? I'm not so confidant. If so, how many of them will go straight to auction houses, who then will have them graded? i say most of them.

vladguerrero

<< <i>There are plenty of older collectors out there that just don't believe in 3rd party grading. Eventually those collections will hit the market. I call dibs! >>



I would agree, there's stuff out there just not in the market.

Anyone else notice a lot of PSA sets and partial sets being sold ay major auction houses aren't being registered in the registry?

YogiBerraFan

<< <i>plenty? I'm not so confidant. If so, how many of them will go straight to auction houses, who then will have them graded? i say most of them. >>



There are more than you think. I know of about 30 pretty substantial collections on the east coast and I am only one guy. Who knows where those collections will go when they pass. So far it seems like you will disagree with any opinions you are given.

itzagoner

i think recent history tells us that there are still a lot of opportunities. the market continues to offer plenty of recently graded vintage cards, from my interpretation anyways, if you start at the early 50's and go forward. the cards must be coming from somewhere, most likely private collections where the owner was guided towards a relationship with a 3rd party grader and an auction house or high profile online seller.

so, that stuff aside, what about all the people who have smaller accumulations, very little time on their hands and no patience to deal with the more demanding aspects of marketing, they just want to sell.

go find them. ask everyone you know if they know someone who knows someone, etc, etc.....as far as i'm concerned, every social interaction is an opportunity, just bring up the topic.

sooner or later you'll get that call. don't let it go to voicemail.

JoeBanzai

There's PLENTY of ungraded vintage out there! The challenge is convincing the owners to sell their collections. Many of these people acquired their cards for next to nothing, are financially well off, and are not interested in selling them.

As these people either find themselves in need of money or simply pass their collections on to their heirs, the cards will trickle onto the market.

One of my best friends has complete sets from the 1960's and has no interest in getting the star cards graded. If you have spoken to some of the people on these boards through PM's, you know a lot of them are in the same (or bigger) boat.

Joe

NSibian

Not so sure there is still and abundance of ungraded vintage left, but I do know a local collector that has multiple complete sets of every year from 1948-1994 (year he quit collecting). He used to own a card shop in the card boom days and never sold any of his remaining inventory when he closed. He claims to have multiples of most HOF rookies from all those years in his personal collection. Obviously due to the years he collected, he does not own a single graded card.

Sportsamerica

There is an older guy locally to me who is sitting on some very nice '50 sets (Multiples of each). I have seen his '52 Mantles, and I would think they would get 7+ grading. He has 5 of them in this collection. He has not interest in selling them, but like to share them as conversation pieces. He has had them since he was a kid, so yes there is MANY untouched vintage not in the market yet. Wait until the "Baby Boomers" need the money, then they will flood the market again.

Vintageismygame

I am working on a deal right now that has a minty fresh 52 Pafko, 52 Mays, 52 Snider, 48 Berra, (2) 49 Robinson plus about 250 other minty cards from the 40's and 50's! There is plenty ungraded vintage out there.

Matt

PSARich

There are most certainly great vintage cards out there that are ungraded. However, it takes time and effort...as well as a good eye and some luck to find them. For example, at the last Chicago Sun Times Show I found two dealers who sold lots of ungraded cards from the 1930's through the 1970's. Mostly in VG-EX condition but also lesser amounts of better condition cards. I did spend all my $700 with these two dealers and after sending them in for grading, received the following:

11 1956 BB PSA 8's and 1 PSA 7, all gray backs with far lesser populations than the white backs. Three of the cards have SMR values of over $150. Paid less than $100 for all of them. Included was a Sandy Amoros RC, Herb Sciore RC, Gil McDougal, and Red Sox Team card.

3 1957 BB HOFers that received PSA 6 or 7, paid less than $15 each.

3 1959 BB high #'s that received PSA 8s and 1 (Topps #570 Bob Turley AS) that got a PSA 9 Mint. All at 30% off Beckett NM prices.

Also picked up a good number of 1970-1972 BB stars at great prices. Sent in a 1972 Aaron that got an 8, Brock that got an 8, and a Jackson that got a 7.

Now I will admit that I visited 50-60 tables from which I could find nothing to buy. But there are ungraded vintage cards available if you persevere and I always seem to find some I want/need.

itzagoner

<< <i>Sure there are lots of independant collectors who have hoards of raw ... but I have my doubts as to how well lots of these cards have stood the tests of time, especially if they haven't been slabbed or at least protected in plastic. >>



there are cards which have been protected, quite simply, by being allowed to sit untouched in the same box for years, even decades at a time. you'd be shocked, particularly if you'd seen some of the 50's/60s vintage i had the pleasure of viewing recently, which was exactly that - cards that were handled sparingly, then stored for a long time.

this is, of course, the exception, not the rule......but, imagine there are millions upon millions of vintage cards "out there", and even the tiniest fraction of them being potentially high grade and highly desirable makes it worth the effort to find them.

raykasa

"Ultimately there is a finite amount of this stuff. It's only going to degrade in quantity and quality over time ... Frankly I think we're all witnessing the reservoirs dry up and the wars escalating for the high grade stuff.

Get it while it lasts! "

this is where i was leaning is this fine discussion. however- it seems that many of the members still feel there's stuff out there. based on your input, i feel more optomistic than before. thanks!

larryallen73

There is a TON of stuff out there that is ungraded. A TON! I have two very good friends who have collected their whole lives and never had a single card graded. The one has sets from '67-'85 or so, along with many individual cards. The other has sets from the late 50's through current. I have talked with both of them, at length, about getting cards graded and neither wants to try it. I also have a client with a huge collection from the 40's-60's and never had a single card graded. These type of collections will come through to the public as the years go on.

fkw

PreWar cards in NRMT condition are scarce to begin with. You must be thinking Topps cards ?

Like others pointed out there are quite a few larger PreWar collections that are raw and will stay raw for a while more. I know of one multi million dollar collection that is 99.9% raw, and I really dont keep up on which collections are raw.

I only crack cards out I dont plan on selling right away, or if they are lower value commons that should never have been slabbed in the first place, and dont fit in with my sets/collections. But some collectors I know crack out (free) everything they get their hands on.

Plastic collectors will eventually get their hands on some of them, but by the time some of the others reach the market again, bulky plastic slabs may no longer be the 'fad". These slab companies need to reinvent themselves to keep bringing in your $$

Griffins

A few years ago I bought something from a long time collector, and as I was going to be in his town he invited me to swing by and pick it up.
When there he asked if I wanted to see any caramel cards. I did, so he started bringing out binders- E90-1, E92, E93, all the way thru E106. Complete sets, overprints, color varitions, the works.
Each binder was full of pristine cards- he'd been upgrading since the early 70's, and what he had was flawless. He doesn't believe in grading and everything was raw- and I didn't see anything that would grade lower than a 7, much of it higher.
He told me he has lots of friends and clients that feel the same way, and keep everything raw. He has no plans to sell and statistically has 25+ years to live, so they won't see a slab for some time, if ever.
There is lots of stuff still out there.

summerof68

<< <i>There is lots of stuff still out there. >>

handyman

Not sure what we are all doing here if there is nothing left to grade.

mikeschmidt

For example, the 1914 Cracker Jack set that sold for ~a million was sold raw just a few years ago, and that resulted in a number of SGC 98 gem mint cards, including an absolutely incredible Joe Jackson.

There is a lot of raw out there -- but money is not a motivating factor for most of those collectors to either a) share of the existence of their collections or b) sell.

M

Maurice

A significant amount of the recently graded high grade cards aren't fresh to the hobby. They are crackouts from older PSA holders.

handyman

Really that many?

jgrigali

I think there is a lot out there too, particularly if you consider vintage pre-1975.
For example, I just got a ton of cards from my dad that I sent in to PSA.

I had at least 10 PSA 8 cards from 1956-1965 in each year...plus a few 1957 unmarked checklists, 1968 mantle/mays/killebrew? in PSA 8...a lot of mid grade stuff...and I would say my dad's collection was barely a hobby.

jmmiller777

Nope, I don't think there is a lot of great gradeable vintage cards out there available. The stuff in big collections will never be available in any considerable quanities to us, they will go to other" big money" collectors. I guess some will eventually get graded as younger collectors emerge. The term "available" is so subjective. Unopened vintage is even worse. It kills me when I see this product opened, even early 70's stuff.