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The new JM 1 ounce bars

WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Precious Metals
were licensed by JM to Sunshine mint, who is actually the producer of these new bars.

Would that influence your decision to buy them?
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
--Severian the Lame

Comments

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    yes
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>yes >>



    Positively or negatively? image
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,111 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Both are well established and reputable firms so I don't see this as a problem.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭
    interesting fact. on balance I would say no, it doesn't matter. but it does matter a little bit. kind of like finding out a luxury car is built on the same platform and shares some parts with an economy car. image
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why in the heck would it matter? Sunshine makes planchets for ASE's, for Pete's sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • FountainheadFountainhead Posts: 956
    I don't know what the new JM bars look like but the next bars I buy will probably be the stackables from Apmex. Much easier to store than ordinary bars.
    Salute the automobile: The greatest anti-pollution device in human history!
    (Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Why in the heck would it matter? Sunshine makes planchets for ASE's, for Pete's sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>



    But they don't make ASEs.

    I don't know. Isn't there a higher standard for PMs? It's the very nature of their existence. Why bother with a maker's mark, literally a hallmark, if it doesn't mean something? If it doesn't mean something, then you don't need the JM design. Make Sunshine bars and leave it at that.

    If it DOES mean something, then how can it be applied to a product not actually of that hall/maker?

    I personally love this classic JM design. And JM products are the foundation of my Ag bullion hoard. But they could have changed or even improved upon this original iconic design to differentiate it from the originals. Added a manufacture date, the Sunshine equivalent to the Englehard bull, something, anything that would indicate this is New Coke and not the Original recipe.

    But the last thing you want in a PM is for it to be inauthentic. In fact, that's the worst thing it can be.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,595 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Both are well established and reputable firms so I don't see this as a problem. >>




    image
  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭✭
    this is New Coke and not the Original recipe.

    Hint: look at the serial number fontimage
  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭
    they did they made the generic jm bars with serial numbers starting with the letter "A"...
    pretty much ruined the brand, or at least made these new bars seen as generic to the die hard old bar buyer...

    only the non-"A" bars are the real old jm bars...
    keceph `anah
  • epcjimi1epcjimi1 Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭
    Link?
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Link? >>



    Product Description
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • TheBigBTheBigB Posts: 942 ✭
    I prefer to buy Sunshine bars as Sunshine, I don't like this development.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,111 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As long as you get a full Troy ounce of silver and the fineness is at least 999, I don't see this as a big deal.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • tydyetydye Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭
    I am a huge fan of JM but not these bars. In order to be authentic JM bars they need to be struck at a JM facility. Not just licensed. It has cheapened the brand in my opinion.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,111 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I am a huge fan of JM but not these bars. In order to be authentic JM bars they need to be struck at a JM facility. Not just licensed. It has cheapened the brand in my opinion. >>



    I'm sure J-M provides oversight and quality control.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And I'm sure Sunshine is reliable.

    But that doesn't make these JM bars. To me, at least. I feel it does actually cheapen both the bar and the JM brand.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    Silver is Silver, as long as weight & finesse correct seems kosher to me!
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>And I'm sure Sunshine is reliable.

    But that doesn't make these JM bars. To me, at least. I feel it does actually cheapen both the bar and the JM brand. >>



    Yes. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • nibannynibanny Posts: 2,761 ✭


    << <i>And I'm sure Sunshine is reliable.

    But that doesn't make these JM bars. To me, at least. I feel it does actually cheapen both the bar and the JM brand. >>



    Being in the fashion industry, I can't avoid to think about that in fashion terms.
    Our top line is produced in Italy, doing otherwise would cheapen it.
    Though, our other brand produced somewhere else have still the same appeal to the final consumer, thanks to the brand name.

    But I agree that JM bars should be produced in a JM facility.
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • OnlyGoldIsMoneyOnlyGoldIsMoney Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>And I'm sure Sunshine is reliable.

    But that doesn't make these JM bars. To me, at least. I feel it does actually cheapen both the bar and the JM brand. >>




    Let's hope BASF (or whoever owns the rights) does not start licensing the Engelhard name. image
    NO END IN SIGHT LIB $2.50'S CAC ONLY
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I only drink water from Lake Michigan. Once it flows into Lake Huron it isn't as good.......
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • TheBigBTheBigB Posts: 942 ✭


    << <i>I'm sure J-M provides oversight and quality control. >>



    I would be very much surprised if that was true.

    My opinion is that they only rented the rights to the name.
  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I only drink water from Lake Michigan. Once it flows into Lake Huron it isn't as good....... >>




    I see you pointimage
















    image
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I only drink water from Lake Michigan. Once it flows into Lake Huron it isn't as good....... >>



    You're saying water is water, silver is silver.

    If that's the case, there is no reason to use the JM name and logo--Sunshine would be just fine. So why use it?

    It seems both JM and Sunshine disagree with the water is water analogy.

    Which would you choose for the same money: a JM bar or a 1973 Graduation Day bar?

    I suspect the vast majority of the board members would take the JM bar without hesitation. Because silver isn't just silver. Hallmarks mean something to us.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • tydyetydye Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭
    I would not drink the water from either lake. artesian or spring water is much better.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,111 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I'm sure J-M provides oversight and quality control. >>



    I would be very much surprised if that was true. >>



    I would be very surprised if it weren't true. J-M would want to protect the integrity of their brand. It's just a prudent business practice.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • TheBigBTheBigB Posts: 942 ✭
    What if Sunshine got rights to produce Engelhard products and decided to produce different size old pour bars like the 3 oz?
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I only drink water from Lake Michigan. Once it flows into Lake Huron it isn't as good....... >>



    You're saying water is water, silver is silver.

    If that's the case, there is no reason to use the JM name and logo--Sunshine would be just fine. So why use it?

    It seems both JM and Sunshine disagree with the water is water analogy.

    Which would you choose for the same money: a JM bar or a 1973 Graduation Day bar?

    I suspect the vast majority of the board members would take the JM bar without hesitation. Because silver isn't just silver. Hallmarks mean something to us. >>



    In a bull market, silver is silver and the premiums for "how it looks" shrink, right?

    But, now, "how it looks" really matters a lot (for enjoyment while you're holding onto it, and for potential sale liquidity later on) so it's much better if your ounce of silver is "cool", like with a brand name, or a quaint, primitive old pour style, or with a dragon painted on it. That way, someone can try to get more than spot because it's "collectible", and others will be willing to pay it because, if it ain't going up fast in value, at least you can enjoy looking at it.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • tincuptincup Posts: 5,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Count me as one who does not like this development.

    Yes, silver is silver.

    but licensing out one's brand name IMO cheapens the brand name and plants just a little more doubt into the end product. I'm sure there will be some oversight, but how much?? I'm sure it will not be as continuous and rigid as at the original plant/facility. I agree with the above comment, that if silver is just silver, then why license out the brand name? why not just purchase the Sunshine bars and rounds??

    I would not be willing to pay additional premium for the new JM bars (in other words, should be the same as Sunshine)

    I hope this will not be a new trend... licensing out the brand name. Just wait until..... China obtains the licensing rights to Englehard, etc. !!
    ----- kj
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,212 ✭✭✭✭✭


    I know i'm going to be sad when someone sullies the fair name of the "girls gone wild bars" I'd hate to see the premium come off of thoseimage
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,111 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What if Sunshine got rights to produce Engelhard products and decided to produce different size old pour bars like the 3 oz? >>



    I would buy several and request that they also produce some 4 and 7 ounce bars.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • epcjimi1epcjimi1 Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭
    Revealing the minting source is the better part of valor, but in the end it will cheapen the brand, I suspect.
  • OnlyGoldIsMoneyOnlyGoldIsMoney Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>What if Sunshine got rights to produce Engelhard products and decided to produce different size old pour bars like the 3 oz? >>



    I would buy several and request that they also produce some 4 and 7 ounce bars. >>



    PerryHall, just don't ask them to produce any more Engelhard 2 ounce bars.
    NO END IN SIGHT LIB $2.50'S CAC ONLY
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
  • tneigtneig Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
    I haven't gone for much with a big extra premiums yet, having read enough articles on how some got stung a bit. Maybe an extra buck or so, on something I like. So far I see the value is relative to the sell time, method of selling, and the type of dealing you are able to do. Also as a non-professional, if you are lucky enough to find a good deal from someone selling.

    For instance, I see in craigslist a repeated sale of 3, 1984 propector coins for $115, that aren't selling. Gives one the impression the selling price is higher, but I've been buying new condition wrapped 82 propector coins for $29.50 and $30. I think the seller would do better using ebay in this case, even with the fees. I just wouldn't buy them above the price I paid now.

    Maybe I could get a little more premium 10years from now.

    The sunshine made JMs could soften the extra premium a little. Whenever there is something with a little extra value, they will come out with something to take advantage of it.
    COA
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