Home U.S. Coin Forum

2 1/2 points of upgrade

Not bad:

From


To
Ed

Comments

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,642 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They should have left it in the original holder and submitted it for a platinum bean.

    Seriously, though, while that's a very cool coin, I don't think I should be able to see the scuffs I see on a web photo for a 66. Are any bidders going into this not going to be aware of the coin's grade history and look at the current grade with arched brow? Of course, since these don't trade often, the jump in grade assigned will probably have less measurable of an effect than if it were a better date Morgan dollar going from 64 to 66.
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Different example. The Heritage one has a hit by the star behind Miss Libs head.

    The other one does not.

    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • deviousdevious Posts: 1,690
    Same coin! Extremely identical. No way they can be different. Cool on the two+ point upgrade! image
  • yellowkidyellowkid Posts: 5,486


    << <i>Same coin! Extremely identical. No way they can be different. Cool on the two+ point upgrade! image >>

    :agree
  • djdilliodondjdilliodon Posts: 1,938 ✭✭
    I looked at both and cant find anything that leads me to believe its the same coin image
  • deviousdevious Posts: 1,690


    << <i>I looked at both and cant find anything that leads me to believe its the same coin image >>



    You may want a new monitor. image Seriously, the spots on the reverse align EXACTLY the same. All the spots, smudges, stains, discolorations, frost breaks, and so forth leaves me to conclude it is precisely the same coin.

    But also note, it is from a PCGS PR64 to a NGC PR66 slab. Wonder if PCGS would upgrade it today?
  • Ed62Ed62 Posts: 857 ✭✭
    Wonder if PCGS would upgrade it today?

    They already did
    Ed
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PCGS to NGC .................That's about par!
  • djdilliodondjdilliodon Posts: 1,938 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I looked at both and cant find anything that leads me to believe its the same coin image >>



    You may want a new monitor. image Seriously, the spots on the reverse align EXACTLY the same. All the spots, smudges, stains, discolorations, frost breaks, and so forth leaves me to conclude it is precisely the same coin.

    But also note, it is from a PCGS PR64 to a NGC PR66 slab. Wonder if PCGS would upgrade it today? >>



    Guess my iPhone's retina display isn't as good as they say lol. For the record I didn't sign into ha for the better pics.
  • goldengolden Posts: 9,018 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>PCGS to NGC .................That's about par! >>

    image
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>PCGS to NGC .................That's about par! >>



    It's awesome that you chirp up in threads like this. When the reverse happens and it's posted here you are like my kids were on garbage night. Nowhere to be found. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • KoveKove Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>PCGS to NGC .................That's about par! >>




    Just a tiny amount of research (aided by the OP's second post) would confirm that it was PCGS that upgraded this exact same coin 2.5 points from PR64CAM to PR66DCAM between 6/04 and 3/05.

    NGC crossed it AT GRADE for the June Baltimore auction at S-B.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>PCGS to NGC .................That's about par! >>




    Just a tiny amount of research (aided by the OP's second post) would confirm that it was PCGS that upgraded this exact same coin 2.5 points from PR64CAM to PR66DCAM between 6/04 and 3/05.

    NGC crossed it AT GRADE for the June Baltimore auction at S-B. >>



    well isnt that just a peach. Thanks dude. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • TorinoCobra71TorinoCobra71 Posts: 8,020 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Different example. The Heritage one has a hit by the star behind Miss Libs head.

    The other one does not.

    bobimage >>



    It IS the same coin.

    Looks like the coin should be a PR65CAM......

    image
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A Pattern in a NGC holder graded far higher then at PCGS is nothing new...

    Lets talk about your math as to me this is a 2 point upgrade not 2 1/2 unless your counting MS64 also image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!


  • << <i>PCGS to NGC .................That's about par! >>



    It seems that PCGS also upgraded it.


  • << <i>

    << <i>PCGS to NGC .................That's about par! >>



    It's awesome that you chirp up in threads like this. When the reverse happens and it's posted here you are like my kids were on garbage night. Nowhere to be found. MJ >>



    image
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>PCGS to NGC .................That's about par! >>




    Just a tiny amount of research (aided by the OP's second post) would confirm that it was PCGS that upgraded this exact same coin 2.5 points from PR64CAM to PR66DCAM between 6/04 and 3/05.

    NGC crossed it AT GRADE for the June Baltimore auction at S-B. >>



    Now now
    Are you trying to lower the sugar content of KoolAid ?

    I wonder if some responders here will re-respond now that there are more facts on the table image
    Probably not. And isn't it funny that Friday is garbage collection day....image
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>PCGS to NGC .................That's about par! >>



    It seems that PCGS also upgraded it. >>



    From the OP's avatar I think he knows a lot more about this coin and the pattern "collecting space" than I do.

    I haven't seen this particular piece, but perhaps this is not a grading issue at all. Or, if so, I'd suggest that both services have decided to grade, not the market, but the population. Nothing to do with the registry set concept.

    1804 S$1's are TPG-graded based on the population. No matter how contaminated you believe the gradeflation phenomenon to be, these grade out at the TPG's at a hierachical position quite consistent with previous placement in the census long before TPGs.

    Physically large size coin. Highest denomination. It's aluminum, quite rare overall as a coinage metal within the pattern universe. Off-metal patterns for gold coin denominations are even more rare.

    I'm suggesting a "foundational" value based on a multiplicity of factors.

    Auminum pieces were produced in such limited numbers for such a short time that there was essentially no information about storage considerations for that metal. There's nothing that rots like aluminum. No patina of pretty colors. They go immediately to Jail. Corrosion is always terminal. The pictures are scary.

    It's not like copper. You can fix copper. image

    Thus, hard mirrors and DCAM devices are incredibly difficult to locate. I don't mean PR68DCAM Morgan S$1 rare. I mean rare.

    On a very primitive level this degree of eye appeal on a coin this large is an eye-popper. Literally. The optical nerve palpably pulsates.

    Relative (D)CAMness within the overall population of aluminum patterns of this size and denomination is probably worth not 0.5 pts but as much as 1.5 pts. Maybe 64 suggests way too little for how this coin appears to the more informed eye.

    I don't know if it was the intention of the OP to stimulate debate about technical grading. My guess is he knows what he's looking at without a loupe. I don't think any potential owner will have failed to perform due diligence. The holder suggests how good it is for how rare it is.

    I'm thinking the holder's quantitatively expressed technical grade is suggesting something else. Underlying foundational rarity in terms of physical size, denomination, metal of production and retention of original production quality for that specific metal.

    The grade says SPECIAL when one photo is worth a thousand labels. On this coin marks/lines hardly matter. TPG holder grades are just a shorthand for a tasty stew of the above and other diverse factors.

    The essence image of grading is a mysterious conflation of arithmetic and virtue. image

    Very cool coin. Amusing holder
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • Ed62Ed62 Posts: 857 ✭✭
    Col. Jessup makes some interesting points.

    Surprised this thread has survived this long.
    Ed
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Col. Jessup makes some interesting points.

    Surprised this thread has survived this long. >>



    I concur.
    Now where are some of those re-responders ?????
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Col. Jessup makes some interesting points.

    Surprised this thread has survived this long. >>



    I concur.
    Now where are some of those re-responders ????? >>



    It's trash night I suspect. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • Ill take a NGC 66ucam over a PCGS 64cam any day - if not solely for financial reasons.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ill take a NGC 66ucam over a PCGS 64cam any day - if not solely for financial reasons. >>



    It went from a PCGS 64CAM in 2004 to a PCGS 66DC in 2005 to a NGC 66 UC presently. See the OP's second reply and link. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file