Bobby Orr signing story

pmcollectour

This is for those of you who like autographed items, or who like hockey.

Ron Blanchard is the swingman for Bobby Orr's company GNR. They'll sign things ranging from $120.00 for a sports card, to
$500.00 for a rookie card, to other fees for other items.

Ron and I shared some emails after I sent some business his way. Very nice guy.


I receive five signed items back from Bobby. Two have good sigs. Three sigs are bad, with one sig coming off the card.
Refund ? No. Ron thinks the sigs are great after I email him pics.

He then tells me that if people send Bobby a specific pen, with instructions about where to sign, that Bobby will return the items unsigned.
These people are spending $120.00 for a sig, and they can't ask for his sig to go in a certain place ?

So I say to Ron that's like Bobby going to a resturant, paying $120.00 for a steak, asking for it to be cooked medium-well, and
the chef bring him an empty plate because he asked for his steak a certain way.

I don't think Ron took too kindly to that statement, but my father built a small company into a big one spanning twenty states, and
good customer service was the backbone of his success. I guess I was just a little taken back by Bobby Orr's business practice.

VitoCo1972

Very surprising. I sent Ron 8 cards for a couple members and myself 4-5 months ago and we were all very pleased. I sent specific pens and notes on where to sign everything and it wasn't a problem. I'm sorry to hear you had issues.

georgebailey2

I've tried this in two other Orr signature threads, but I'll try again:

Does anyone know if he signs the Legends serial numbered cards(Postcards) sold through the HHOF in the 90's. The guys that did that one had an arrangement for the living players to sign them for $10 each, but Orr did not participate. It took a long time to get them all back. I wish they had been able to keep going. Did the entire Pywowarcuk (sic) set from the 80's make it to postcard size?

I did try e-mailing Orr's web-site about five years aga and never got a response.

Thanks.

VitoCo1972

<< <i>I've tried this in two other Orr signature threads, but I'll try again:

Does anyone know if he signs the Legends serial numbered cards(Postcards) sold through the HHOF in the 90's. The guys that did that one had an arrangement for the living players to sign them for $10 each, but Orr did not participate. It took a long time to get them all back. I wish they had been able to keep going. Did the entire Pywowarcuk (sic) set from the 80's make it to postcard size?

I did try e-mailing Orr's web-site about five years aga and never got a response.

Thanks. >>



These?

pmcollectour

<< <i>Very surprising. I sent Ron 8 cards for a couple members and myself 4-5 months ago and we were all very pleased. I sent specific pens and notes on where to sign everything and it wasn't a problem. I'm sorry to hear you had issues. >>




Do you live in Boston or New England ?

georgebailey2

<< <i>

<< <i>I've tried this in two other Orr signature threads, but I'll try again:

Does anyone know if he signs the Legends serial numbered cards(Postcards) sold through the HHOF in the 90's. The guys that did that one had an arrangement for the living players to sign them for $10 each, but Orr did not participate. It took a long time to get them all back. I wish they had been able to keep going. Did the entire Pywowarcuk (sic) set from the 80's make it to postcard size?

I did try e-mailing Orr's web-site about five years aga and never got a response.

Thanks. >>



These?

>>



That be them! Now I know at least one thing I want for Christmas.

I wish they'd start them up again.

VitoCo1972

<< <i>

<< <i>Very surprising. I sent Ron 8 cards for a couple members and myself 4-5 months ago and we were all very pleased. I sent specific pens and notes on where to sign everything and it wasn't a problem. I'm sorry to hear you had issues. >>




Do you live in Boston or New England ? >>



Nope, I live in Los Angeles. I had very productive conversations with Ron for about a month before I sent.

CDsNuts

I'll be the first to say I don't understand the first thing about autographs. There's nothing that appeals to me about having to jump through hoops to beg or pay another grown man to have him sign his name on something.

That said, when you do ask/pay for and receive an autograph, as long as you get said autograph and it is clearly signed by the athlete, shouldn't that be enough? I understand the difference it can make when talking about the visual appeal of an item, but you're asking/paying a guy to sign his name. If he signs his name then isn't that what you asked/paid for? I know you're paying a lot of money in some cases, but I hear complaints all the time about how so-and-so didn't sign it in the sweet spot, or on the barrel, or he wouldn't leave an inscription, etc.... To me these complaints make no sense. You're pigeon-holing a guy into signing a specific piece on a specific spot in a specific fashion which I would find absurd if I was an athlete/celebrity. And then on top of it the guy is an a-hole if he refuses to sign. I view the mentality as something like "Oh my god, you're my favorite athlete of all time and I would love your autograph on this picture! Could you please sign it? Yes? GREAT!. Please sign it on the bottom left above the grass, but below the dirt. Oh, and please write 'HOF #19, 565 HRs, .308 lifetime BA, 228 stolen bases, 12 time all star, MVP 1974'. Thanks I appreciate it...... WHAT THE HELL, THERE'S A SMUDGE!"

Like I said, I don't understand autos and never really did. But I really think the people that collect auto's need to lighten up a little bit. In the end you're collecting something because the person's accomplishments mean something to you and the autograph signifies a) those accomplishments, b) the person's fame, and c) that perhaps you actually met that person and shared a moment. Complaining about the aesthetic beauty of whatever piece it is that he's signing because it's not exactly what you had envisioned is really nitpicking in my view. I understand these guys open themselves up for complaints when they charge for their autos, but in the end what you paid for is an auto and that's what you got.

Lee

PeteZaria

Does any athlete do this yet?...

autographs - $100
legible autographs - $50 extra
using your pen - $20 extra
in a specific place on the item - $20 extra

pmcollectour

Lee,

If you're paying $120.00 to get your suit cleaned for an upcoming business meeting, and you point
out a few spots to the tailor, do you hope the tailor pays special attention to your requests being that you're forking over $120.00 for one suit ?


Next question. Do you appreciate the eye appeal that is valued with sports memorabilia ? What distinguishes a nice piece from
a great piece ? A nice card from a great card ? If you do, then you'll understand (to some of us), the importance of a signature
to a great piece.

Imagine if I had an original painting of George Washington.
Would it have more value and eye appeal if it were signed by George and perhaps the artist ?

Boopotts

<< <i>Lee,

If you're paying $120.00 to get your suit cleaned for an upcoming business meeting, and you point
out a few spots to the tailor, do you hope the tailor pays special attention to your requests being that you're forking over $120.00 for one suit ?


Next question. Do you appreciate the eye appeal that is valued with sports memorabilia ? What distinguishes a nice piece from
a great piece ? A nice card from a great card ? If you do, then you'll understand (to some of us), the importance of a signature
to a great piece.

Imagine if I had an original painting of George Washington.
Would it have more value and eye appeal if it were signed by George and perhaps the artist ? >>



That's a different case, because you're asking the tailor to clean your suit. Thus, the suit should be free of spots when you get it back.

In the case of the autograph, you're paying someone to sign something. If he signs it then you got what you paid for. Now, if the athlete/celebrity says 'I will honor special requests' and then goes ahead and produces a poor auto that isn't consistent with your requests that's another situation entirely. But if a guy simply says 'send me $150 and I'll sign your card' then he's satisfied his end of the bargain so long as he does, in fact, sign it.

With that being said, there can be an ocean of difference between 'doing the minimum' and 'doing things the right way', and IMO this Bobby Orr setup is definitely not doing things the right way.

VitoCo1972

I'll defend the OP here. In the autograph industry it's known that signing in the proper place with the appropriate pen is expected as long as the item was sent in with the specified info correctly. Many dealers will refund or give credit for items signed in a manner inconsistent with the submitter's wishes.

The appropriate card metaphor would be if you asked PSA for no qualifiers on a card grading submission and they returned them with a bunch of 8OC's and 9MC's. Yes, your card was graded for your fee but it wasn't consistent with your wishes. Under the other posters scenarios, the OP should be satisfied with a bunch of MC/OC grades simply because PSA graded the cards.

Let's not mistake paid autograph signings for free TTM attempts. When you pay for a card to be signed at a show or through a dealer, it should be signed exactly how you want/where you want.

CDsNuts

I'm not really trying to start an argument about this because I respect both of you guys as collectors, and have had multiple successful transactions and pm conversations with Mike (Vito) in the past. I guess my point is that the whole autograph market has morphed into something that completely contradicts the spirit in which autographs were collected. Most people would agree that it would be cool to have a jersey or ball signed by Cal Ripken, and most non-collectors and many collectors would not really care where or how it was signed. The fact that this very famous person (whether paid or not) has signed an item should be enough, anything additional would be icing on the cake. I just find it weird that more 'value' is assigned to how the person signed it, where they signed it, what type of pen was used, what was inscribed, etc.... It's reached a point where just getting the famous person's auto isn't enough and I think this is why these athletes get frustrated and charge for their autos.

Building off Boo's comments, I completely agree that an athlete or promoter that charges for an auto and refuses to honor simple requests is pretty lame, but I don't really think it's something worth complaining about as long as you get the guy's auto.

Lee

78248

I enjoyed my only Orr signing

when I got there, there was a picture of him on the table, showing him signing all the items ahead of time
... no show

39 of 40 HOF'ers show up ... one doesnt ... and it wasnt announced that he WOULDNT be there

If the guy doesnt enjoy the fans ... why do they enjoy him ???

Dont get it

WalterSobchak

Congratulations on the successful PM conversations, Lee.

CDsNuts

Congratulations on the successful PM conversations, Lee.

Thanks, it was a little touch and go for a while but we pulled them out in the end.

VitoCo1972

Lee, I certainly agree that as autographs have increased in "value" their sentimental meaning has decreased in value. I'm not arguing that at all. I'm just discussing the business practice, not the ethics. You should always get what you pay for. '

So you know, as an autograph collector, most of my favorite things are from guys that nobody has heard of and have no value if I were to ever want to sell them.

dmurphy3mvp

Having done autograph signings with a couple hundred athletes, from the greenest rookie to HOFs who depend on the income from appearances to live, it is my belief that Bobby Orr has no idea of all the rules his handler has in place. Most handlers are only in it for the money (obvious) and could really care less if the finished piece comes out looking beautiful. In fact, many of them share the same beliefs as CDsNuts. "I can't believe people are paying money for your autograph, Bobby. Oh well, let's just grab the money and get this over with."

I've dealt with some notoriously difficult signers and prima donnas (Marcus Allen, Terrell Owens, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Bush) and during a private signing, when the public is not around, if you place the item in front of them, force them to switch the pen they are holding in their hand, and point to where they need sign, they will do it because they are getting paid. They might grumble and complain, but they will do it.

At a private signing in February 2006, over two months before Reggie Bush was drafted by the Saints, there was a New Orleans full-sized helmet on the table in front of him at the end of a row of USC helmets. His agent, the infamous Mike Ornstein, said, "Reggie isn't going to sign this." (Ornstein, Reggie, even myself - we all were sure he was going to the Texans. Reggie even went as far as flying to Texas weeks before the draft to incorporate himself for tax purposes.) Reggie grabbed the helmet and asked me, "Did this guy pay?" When I confirmed with a yes, he smugly replied, "That's all that really matters to me."

Tomi

<< <i>I enjoyed my only Orr signing

when I got there, there was a picture of him on the table, showing him signing all the items ahead of time
... no show

39 of 40 HOF'ers show up ... one doesnt ... and it wasnt announced that he WOULDNT be there

If the guy doesnt enjoy the fans ... why do they enjoy him ???

Dont get it >>



Do you know why he wasn't there?
Was there a personal issue (health, family)?
Orr does ALOT with his charity so I don't think that he doesn't enjoy the fans. If he didn't enjoy it he wouldn't do it. The guy runs a successful business with his sons so no one is twisting his arm to sign autos. He just does it.
Be glad he is not like Ken dryden where it's next to impossible to get an autograph at all.

78248

it was in 1997
there was a lithograph series called "legends of the pond"
6 lithos ... one for each original 6 teams
most had 7 players per litho

they had one every month or so
and it was billed that all the players would be in person to sign
and they all were, except orr

many upset people
promotor gave no details as to why
we all got duped

AND ... the boston litho ... they jacked up the price for that one also
jacked up price for a no show
they all knew it, except the paying fans

VitoCo1972

<< <i>
Be glad he is not like Ken dryden where it's next to impossible to get an autograph at all. >>



Dryden is the toughest living Hockey HOFer in my opinion (at least guys like Messier/Ratelle do signings every couple years for ridiculous fees). It's such a bummer because he's a lynchpin to several sets I'm working on - particularly 71 where I'm over 80%. The crazy thing about guys like Ken, who don't need the money, is that he could easily set up a signing for AJ's or something and donate all proceeds to charity. Even if he were charging $300 apiece, a TON of guys would pay it. It would be minimal work for a bunch of money to charity. I wish he would do it. I'd be all but forced to pay if I wanted to finish my set.

pmcollectour

Yes, a ton of guys would pay, and perhaps he will someday. But for now, I don't see it.

Here is my favorite Dryden in his classic pose. Obtained in Detroit in 1976 when they beat the Wings 4-1.