The importance of stability in toning
tradedollarnut
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I used to own this coin but sold it off. Honestly, it looked like neither image at the time. Even taking the different style of images into account, it does make me wonder - how long until it's black?
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This concept, IMO, is one of the advantages of older holders.
They give the buyer at least a general idea of how long a coin is likely to have been stable.
(Before the flaming starts - yes, I realize that holders are not airtight, and that coins have been AT'd in their slabs. The above is only a guideline.)
If any of my copper starts to turn, it will be sold ASAP. The very idea that they will change is quite frightening. Thank goodness for dry climates.
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I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Buyer - "Looks like it's turning black?".
<< <i>Sorry, but those photos suck and I can't/won't make any judgements based on them. >>
The top photo is a recent true view from coin facts. I have no idea where that golden color is coming from - it wasn't on the coin a few years ago.
<< <i>I agree, stability is important, but without seeing the coin in hand over time, I'm not sure how one can deduce anything has happened on the Gobrecht (i.e. it can simply be the photo). >>
Exactly.
Trueview or not, I would want to see it in hand before proclaiming it is changing.
Photo could be done to bring out the *snap* of the toning and make it look slightly different than the other photo, and what you perceive.
So, again, in this case and without knowing the coin, I would say the photos suck for what you are trying to drive home.....one cannot tell from the photos that the toning is not stable.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>If you haven't seen the coin in-hand recently I would urge you to be very careful about making any assumptions on how it looks from the TrueView images. I write this because there is another coin that I just examined that showed up with fairly dramatic toning on the TrueView that did not match previous images of the coin. The coin in-hand looked essentially nothing like the TrueView in terms of color. Be careful; you can be fooled. >>
Ok, that's certainly possible in this case. It's been about 4 years since I've seen it.
My son Justin (a Chemistry major now at UCLA) is currently working with a Physics professor at UCSB to try to figure that exact question out. I can't wait to hear what they come up with!
Wondercoin
<< <i>"how long until it's black?"
My son Justin (a Chemistry major now at UCLA) is currently working with a Physics professor at UCSB to try to figure that exact question out. I can't wait to hear what they come up with! >>
I'm guessing they will come up with an elaborate multifunction plot, as the length of time will vary from a few days to many decades, depending on temp and other environmental conditions.
The one exception was one that someone dipped and stripped to get a 1 pt upgrade. That coin got lighter...lol. The deeper old time blue-gray or gray-brown types of toning
can be very stable. But today's hot shots aren't very interested in such toning as the blast is somewhat muted and they can't earn a star, maybe not even a jolly green bean.
Ed Milas bought some early choice/gem 1850's silver mint sets around the 1988 ANA. They were a deep blue-black and had to be dipped. Some of those came out outstanding
earning 66 grades at the time which is about as high as one could achieve. I owned one of those coins from 1994-2006 and it had already turned back a mottled, light
golden brown over half the coin...while holdered. The next time the coin has to be dipped it will become somewhat lifeless. The coin did remain white for several years though.
<< <i>If you haven't seen the coin in-hand recently I would urge you to be very careful about making any assumptions on how it looks from the TrueView images. I write this because there is another coin that I just examined that showed up with fairly dramatic toning on the TrueView that did not match previous images of the coin. The coin in-hand looked essentially nothing like the TrueView in terms of color. Be careful; you can be fooled. >>
I have had this same experience recently with multiple "true views". Best to judge the coin in hand.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Intercept? Or no intercept?
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<< <i>How has the coin been stored the last four years?
Intercept? Or no intercept?
This is not an advertisement. >>
Seriously intercept shield holders do help!
Still, somewhere in the back of my mind, I'm aware that pesky sulfur molecules are slowwwwwly working into my coin boxes, permeating the slabs, and doing their dirty work. At some future date all the silver will be horribly ugly. If Ricko is still around he'll be laughing at us.
you don't know, but base your decision on logic, science, information available, cost, potential benefit, potential risk
balance all those factors and decide for yourself
if you have a $5000 coin do you want to find out later, or just spend $10 and use them
Over and over customers at shows want coins which are brilliant, wellstruck, with nice luster. I have always considered darkly toned, spotted coins ugly, low end, and below average quality. One of the risks with big ticket coins is that the coin will go bad in the holder and be a problem in selling. As a dealer I am in the business to move coins quickly but nevertheless I have seen coins go bad in the holder in just a couple of years. One problem is coins submitted for grading in soft flips which contain PVC. This will damage the coins somewhere down the road resulting in a sort of haze or even green ugly gunk like toning. At that point the coin is ruined. Good luck in getting rid of it.
<< <i>If you haven't seen the coin in-hand recently I would urge you to be very careful about making any assumptions on how it looks from the TrueView images. I write this because there is another coin that I just examined that showed up with fairly dramatic toning on the TrueView that did not match previous images of the coin. The coin in-hand looked essentially nothing like the TrueView in terms of color. Be careful; you can be fooled. >>
Odds are high that the Trueview photos are not accurate with regard to color and toning depth.
In a recent thread on color in images some of us argued for "in-hand" views. Others wanted hidden color, only seen with certain angles and lighting, exaggerated. Trueview photos tend to favor the latter.
Lance.
<< <i>Its just a matter of time as coins are constantly reacting with the atmosphere. And with all the pollutants in the atmosphere these days who knows what kind of ugly toning will happen. Salt air is especially one culprit in dark toning. When I see stickered big ticket coins which have spots, especially black spots or heavy dark toning I have to wonder if the whole stickering thing was invented so these dealers buried in this material could get rid of them LOL. Many of these coins appear to need a dip or professional conservation and I am sure the seller would be glad to be rid of them as they will further get worse over time. In time, they will get get really ugly.
Over and over customers at shows want coins which are brilliant, wellstruck, with nice luster. I have always considered darkly toned, spotted coins ugly, low end, and below average quality. One of the risks with big ticket coins is that the coin will go bad in the holder and be a problem in selling. As a dealer I am in the business to move coins quickly but nevertheless I have seen coins go bad in the holder in just a couple of years. One problem is coins submitted for grading in soft flips which contain PVC. This will damage the coins somewhere down the road resulting in a sort of haze or even green ugly gunk like toning. At that point the coin is ruined. Good luck in getting rid of it. >>
A lot of poeple just buy plastic and labels though and dont really care about the coin.