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The sad state of the Canadian coin market or . . .

ajaanajaan Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭✭
it's time to buy?

My April Canadian Trends has this coin at $380.

1927 Nickel ICCS

DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


Don

Comments

  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭
    Nickels other than the key dates have been very soft for a while. Silver 5 cents and 10 cents as well.

    Combination of a soft market, summer starting, trend prices that are reluctant to get lowered to reflect actual values, etc.

    I've been scooping up a number of decent deals on Canadian coins lately.
    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,411 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i think your onto something there as well pokermandude. ive been doing that as well as money warrents it. i do hope it holds and does well in time image
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,719 ✭✭✭✭✭
    certain Canadian coins are just not appreciated- not sure if and when that will change

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • Jinx86Jinx86 Posts: 3,666 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not a huge collector of Canadian but the coins sales from my ebay lists of Canadians have slowed also, mostly due to the season in most cases.

    As for it being a great time to pick up more quality pieces Id have to agree.
  • PBRatPBRat Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭
    Those soft plastic holders just don't command the sort of respect they did a few years ago.
  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Those soft plastic holders just don't command the sort of respect they did a few years ago. >>



    This is also a very good point. There is definitely a premium for coins in "old cert" ICCS holders (with the embossed circle) compared to the newer three letter serial number ones.
    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,174 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Those soft plastic holders just don't command the sort of respect they did a few years ago. >>



    This is also a very good point. There is definitely a premium for coins in "old cert" ICCS holders (with the embossed circle) compared to the newer three letter serial number ones. >>




    I've been collecting nothing but OLD ICCS holders.
    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Morning, great day here..
    as for Canadian Certified coins:
    market is extremely soft right up to MS64.
    But just try and get a 65 and better. seldom available in the nickels. Nickels were used right up to 90ties in Parking meters and I am guessing about 80 % of them have been seriously damaged in these meters. scratches across the coin, both sides are very common.
    to pay 160 for MS64 1927 nickel is IMO 30 $ too high. Yes, despite what Trends says.
    Perhaps, if you are not sure if the coin is 64 or 65, cut it out a re-submit it to ICCS. and , with NGC you are almost close to be assured a MS65.
    If that works for you, the coin trends for $2000.....
    now I hope you understand that it might be well worth it and you should have no problem to sell it at Heritage etc.. for at least 700..
    It is unfortunate, but that is how it sometimes works.
    Brian at ICCS will certainly re-grade it for you from raw. But, he will be extremely careful to give it a 65.. because of the pricing.
    I worked for me with a 1948 5 cent. and a few others.
    good luck

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • BillyKingsleyBillyKingsley Posts: 2,661 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Nickels were used right up to 90ties in Parking meters and I am guessing about 80 % of them have been seriously damaged in these meters. scratches across the coin, both sides are very common. >>



    I've gotten a lot of Canadian coins in change- I built almost a complete set of cents from the 60s to the 2000s in circulation finds here in NY state- and I've gotten nice handfulls of other denominations as well. The nickels are always in the worst condition, and I've long wondered why. I bet that's the reason.

    I've also found a number of coins, mostly the dime and quarter, where they have an x-like pattern on the obverse. I've kind of wondered if it's some sort of protesting graffitti against the Queen. I hope it's legitimatly just how they wear, because many if not all of them are the only examples I have of each date in my collection and I'd hate to think somebody was purposely damaging them somewhere.
    Billy Kingsley ANA R-3146356 Cardboard History // Numismatic History
  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭✭✭
    these scratches, lines, cross scratches tec come from the very old type meters. on these you deposited the coin into the slot and you had to manually turn a handle. when the coin or slug fits, voila, you had parking. everything was mechanical and there were a lot of rough edges and nicks inside these meters. every time you turned the handle, you also most likely damaged the nickel.
    If there was one scratch you could now easily have another...
    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • GotTheBugGotTheBug Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019 10:19PM

    .

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,794 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think you should stop lost and move on to something more promising. I used to collect US coins but when I see no one really buying them, I sold them all and moved to Chinese and Japanese coins. It is much more fun and if you hold it for couple years it will be in green, some might be double in value.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think it goes something like this (not directed at any specific poster):

    Buyer: Where have all the nice coins gone?
    Seller: I have this, price is $X.
    Buyer: The last one of those that sold went for 50% of $X, what can you do on yours?
    Seller: I don't have anything for sale right now, sorry.

    If prices are down, why would you sell unless you had to?

  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭

    MasonG sums it up pretty well. There is a dearth of nice coins, and a crazy amount of B and C (meh to unappealing) coins that continually trade for a low percentage of book value.

    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,834 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I guess we will know more when this collection is auctioned off.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-coin-collection-heads-to-auction-1.5112540

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,719 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not sure much has changed. And early quality and original high end circs remain a challenge to find.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • sylsyl Posts: 888 ✭✭✭

    In my opinion, it's the corrupted suggestion that coin sites and TPG's put into collector's heads that ALL coins need to be officially graded to be considered collectible. There is a dearth of cert'd coins on the "for sale" market that are worth only a relative few dollars and that cost the owner $10-$50 just to certify. People are listing coins, on the internet or auctions, to make up for their cert costs. If a coin won't actually sell for $150-200, then it's not worth being graded, unless it's for posterity.

    Raw coins and cert'd high grade or scarce items still sell well. I also fault the so-called "book" prices that are nearly a multiple of what a coin is actually worth or really sells for. I like to collect "coins", not plastic containers with labels on them. The auction mentioned and keyed above will NOT give any real indication of the market. The owner of the coins (the consignor) harshly cleaned absolutely the rarest Canadian coins with "Vim" or other harsh cleansers and essentially ruined them. And Heritage and PCGS only noted the cleaning on a small percentage of the coins ... and got huge blow-back. Many were sent back to PCGS to be recert'd with the "details" noted. Scarce and very high grade coins continue to sell well, as more and more people get their coins into the PCGS registry sets.

  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Syl, you hit the nail on the head once again!!
    If it would be easier to have US TPG's certify Canadian coins (border issues and high TPG pricing just because it is nOT a US coin) , the market for CAN coins would much improve.
    Just compare the TPG costs between CAN and the USA and you have a good part of the question answered.
    Personally, I stay away from US graded coins, unless I have discovered a "got to have this one" reason. Lately these reason were 1967 dbl stuck both sides ,a 66 small beads , another diving goose, and a 48 dollar.

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • mdwoodsmdwoods Posts: 5,526 ✭✭✭

    Canadian silver dollars are pretty cheap right now too. I picked up a nice 66 PL toned for 16 bucks on ebay recently

    National Register Of Big Trees

    We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
  • sylsyl Posts: 888 ✭✭✭

    Was it in a TPG holder? Exactly what I said .. people cert'ing 5-$50 coins.

  • QCCoinGuyQCCoinGuy Posts: 324 ✭✭✭✭

    The Canadian coin market is totally bizarre. Trends are way out of whack, with prices for typical material usually valued much higher than they should be. However, there's a significant lack of nice, original, higher-end coins that is not reflected in the trends. But then again, there seems to be a very limited number of collectors who really appreciate that quality and are willing to pay for it. I have also heard from some dealers that it's actually easier for them to move the lower-end stuff, ironically because those buyers flip it (or think they can) on eBay. Seems to be a strange, vicious cycle with many factors at play. I limit the damage by keeping my own focus pretty narrow.

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,834 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @syl said:
    In my opinion, it's the corrupted suggestion that coin sites and TPG's put into collector's heads that ALL coins need to be officially graded to be considered collectible. There is a dearth of cert'd coins on the "for sale" market that are worth only a relative few dollars and that cost the owner $10-$50 just to certify. People are listing coins, on the internet or auctions, to make up for their cert costs. If a coin won't actually sell for $150-200, then it's not worth being graded, unless it's for posterity.

    Raw coins and cert'd high grade or scarce items still sell well. I also fault the so-called "book" prices that are nearly a multiple of what a coin is actually worth or really sells for. I like to collect "coins", not plastic containers with labels on them. The auction mentioned and keyed above will NOT give any real indication of the market. The owner of the coins (the consignor) harshly cleaned absolutely the rarest Canadian coins with "Vim" or other harsh cleansers and essentially ruined them. And Heritage and PCGS only noted the cleaning on a small percentage of the coins ... and got huge blow-back. Many were sent back to PCGS to be recert'd with the "details" noted. Scarce and very high grade coins continue to sell well, as more and more people get their coins into the PCGS registry sets.

    What is your opinion of the registry ......?

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • sylsyl Posts: 888 ✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2019 4:36AM

    I have lots of friends with registry sets but, of course, I don't have one since I've never sent ANY coin in to be graded by any TPG and I have one of the top collections of Vicky large cent varieties. For people collecting on the high end of whatever denomination or specialty, I think that registry sets make good sense for some folks. Also for future selling of specific coinage because it now has a pedigree and will sell much better at an auction. Many collectors have no progeny to pass along the collections ... a shame. The documentation and the "view" photos that accompany the cert'd coin make an excellent reference library. You have great intricate photos of the coins at your fingertips. The coins themselves can stay in the safe or safety deposit box, creating an excellent deterant from theft. If you can afford to 'cert' your collection, then go ahead, but you are burning big bucks that can be better spent on getting more coins. If you are into varieties or errors, you are burning even more valuable bucks. It just makes my eyes roll back in my head when I see folks asking on the sites whether to cert a 5, 10, 50, or even a 100 dollar coin because they think that is what you are supposed to do. Couple that with the hugely inflated trends and price guides, the $200 coin that they had in their hand and "thought" was worth 200 can be bought for $60-70 at any coin show. Pay your $25-40 to the grading company PLUS postage and you have over 50% of the value of the coin down the toilet... more money than the coin will ever be worth.

  • ElmhurstElmhurst Posts: 768 ✭✭✭

    @QCCoinGuy said:
    The Canadian coin market is totally bizarre. Trends are way out of whack, with prices for typical material usually valued much higher than they should be. However, there's a significant lack of nice, original, higher-end coins that is not reflected in the trends. But then again, there seems to be a very limited number of collectors who really appreciate that quality and are willing to pay for it. I have also heard from some dealers that it's actually easier for them to move the lower-end stuff, ironically because those buyers flip it (or think they can) on eBay. Seems to be a strange, vicious cycle with many factors at play. I limit the damage by keeping my own focus pretty narrow.

    I think you are saying the market is now bifurcated, like the US market. Top quality and rarities go for big money, while average items sell well below trends.

  • QCCoinGuyQCCoinGuy Posts: 324 ✭✭✭✭

    Kind of. There are many, many fewer collectors of high end material in Canada. You don’t see that extreme amount of bifurcation, and high end pieces still often sell for less than auction estimates and very rarely more. The opposite it often true for big-time US coins.

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