Jose Canseco (Did he taint sports forever or should he be a hero to our future generation?)

1960toppsguy

Oviously someone would have ratted everyone out had it not been him, how should he be viewed by future generations?

kerryville

I think he should be both. He help taint baseball by his on admission in his book. He gave steroids injections like some street pharmacist. He is a hero in a loose sense when (after out of baseball) said yeah I took steroids and gave it to all of my rowdy friends. So both is the only way to go.
Great question.

vladguerrero

I think a lot of peoples disdain for the man has already significantly subsided.

ClockworkAngel

It would be one thing if Canseco "ratted everyone out" for the sake of the game. No, Jose Canseco ratted everyone out for the good of Jose Canseco and to sell a lot of books. He has always been all about himself from his first 40/40 attempt, to dating Madonna, to pitching in a game and hurting his arm and going on the D/L. He is a narcissisitic ego maniac who did nothing to help the game. Everything he did was to keep himself in the Public eye and try to stay relevant in some desperate attempt to flame his fellow players. He even went on Celebrity Apprentice and quit probably because he realized how hard it would be in reality

I can't stand him if you can't tell. I grew up with that 86 Donruss card being iconic in the hobby in the late 80's but will never own one. My image of him will always be in a Texas Rangers uniform when he's chasing a fly ball and it bounces on top of his head and over the fence for a Home Run. That's the clown he is

EchoCanyon

But if you remember, no one believed him about the number of players on steroids. But later, we find our it was true.

mtcards

How does taint get passed the obscenity censor and some player names get poofed?

digicat

Canseco doesn't think there's anything wrong with using steroids, and talked because he didn't like people lying about it.

I don't see anything heroic about that.

hammered

He is not a hero. But he was an extremely entertaining baseball player. Professional baseball is entertainment, nothing more nothing less.
I will therefore always like Canseco.
I, however, do not look at PED users of that era with the disdain that others do.

ClockworkAngel

<< <i>He is not a hero. But he was an extremely entertaining baseball player. Professional baseball is entertainment, nothing more nothing less.
I will therefore always like Canseco.
I, however, do not look at PED users of that era with the disdain that others do. >>



I don't either. Only Canseco

NVbaseball

On of the 40 best rightfielders in history. That is neither damaging, nor heroic. Being able to hit a baseball and laugh when it bounces on off your head really isn't something of epic proportions

Alfonz24

<< <i>It would be one thing if Canseco "ratted everyone out" for the sake of the game. No, Jose Canseco ratted everyone out for the good of Jose Canseco and to sell a lot of books. He has always been all about himself from his first 40/40 attempt, to dating Madonna, to pitching in a game and hurting his arm and going on the D/L. He is a narcissisitic ego maniac who did nothing to help the game. Everything he did was to keep himself in the Public eye and try to stay relevant in some desperate attempt to flame his fellow players. He even went on Celebrity Apprentice and quit probably because he realized how hard it would be in reality

I can't stand him if you can't tell. I grew up with that 86 Donruss card being iconic in the hobby in the late 80's but will never own one. My image of him will always be in a Texas Rangers uniform when he's chasing a fly ball and it bounces on top of his head and over the fence for a Home Run. That's the clown he is >>



+1

bking

Canseco is no more a hero than Sammy Gravano or someone like that. Not to conflate organized crime with baseball, but Canseco did what he did out of purely selfish motives, whatever those motives happened to be. That isn't a hero in my book, no matter how much good his revelations may have done.

hammered

<< <i>Canseco is no more a hero than Sammy Gravano or someone like that. Not to conflate organized crime with baseball, but Canseco did what he did out of purely selfish motives, whatever those motives happened to be. That isn't a hero in my book, no matter how much good his revelations may have done. >>




Because most authors write books for altruistic reasons

Hank36

It's guys like Canseco who make me wonder exactly what was supposed to be so "controversial" about guys like Reggie Jackson.

MyDaughtersNameIsMattingly

A hero? No.
Soldiers are heros. Cops, firefighters, doctors and nurses are heros.

I don't think Canseco would have dropped the dime if he had been able to reach 500 homers and punch his HOF ticket.
IMO he was pissed that he couldn't get there even with all the juice he did. He couldn't stand to see others succeed via cheating when he couldn't do it himself

Probstein123

not a hero...

jeffcbay

If the term "hero" is going to be used for any professional athlete, at least qualify them as a "sports hero".

As for Canseco, I still like him. I don't vilify any professional athlete who used PEDs to improve their body. I've said it before... albeit not a popular opinion, but it's our fault as fans that these players resorted to PEDs to improve their game. We don't buy tickets to go see base hits and 4 Ks per game. We buy tickets to see home run fests and pitcher's duels. We don't buy jerseys and baseball cards of 20/20 players, we want home run champions and strikeout kings. I'm not wrong, and you know it, you just don't want to admit it. Sure it sets the wrong example for kids, but that's where parenting comes into play.

halosfan

PEDs in all sports existed before the 90s ... ugh ... And I agree that if he did not feel "black balled" he would have never said anything

ClockworkAngel

<< <i>If the term "hero" is going to be used for any professional athlete, at least qualify them as a "sports hero".

As for Canseco, I still like him. I don't vilify any professional athlete who used PEDs to improve their body. I've said it before... albeit not a popular opinion, but it's our fault as fans that these players resorted to PEDs to improve their game. We don't buy tickets to go see base hits and 4 Ks per game. We buy tickets to see home run fests and pitcher's duels. We don't buy jerseys and baseball cards of 20/20 players, we want home run champions and strikeout kings. I'm not wrong, and you know it, you just don't want to admit it. Sure it sets the wrong example for kids, but that's where parenting comes into play. >>



I don't condemn Canseco for using PED's. He's not just another guy that used PED's. He's a guy that ratted out players for the sake of his ego and making some money for his book. Big difference in my mind.

jmmiller777

Back in the 90's Canseco used to have a fan hotline, a 1-900 I believe. I remember reports of him telling tales of his partying and wild times. To this day, I don't know why he did this.Not so sure we can call him a hero. It's funny, this debate comes up for lots of players and the outcome is always the same; heros have overhwelming support while the villians and controversial guys get the mixed, nasty stories. I think he is a rat, yet he was a tremendous part of baseball back then, the Bash Brothers were the most feared 3/4 combo in the American League. But I still vote him for the Hall of Shame.

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>Canseco is no more a hero than Sammy Gravano or someone like that. Not to conflate organized crime with baseball, but Canseco did what he did out of purely selfish motives, whatever those motives happened to be. That isn't a hero in my book, no matter how much good his revelations may have done. >>



I have much more respect for Gravano. Canseco picked out people he had problems with and slammed them, while making saints out of those he liked. There are 4-5 pages in his first book talking about how Clemens is the most honest person in the dugout and would never do steroids.

zendude

Canseco is no hero. He's just a self-centered clown. I will give him some credit for being pretty upfront about the whole steroid issue but he is definitely an unlikeable rat.

Toro

I wouldn't go as far as calling him a hero but I can't fault him for pulling the curtains back on the upper echelon of baseball. IMO, he's an important figure in baseball history no matter his intent.The cultural impact he had on the game and, really, America cannot be ignored. I recall the military banning the same substances that baseball players were accused of using when it all came to light.

vladguerrero

For what it's worth I spent some time with Jose a few weeks back. He flew in for a charity HR derby for autism which was set up by a young guy who has an autistic son. This guy challenged Jose to a HR derby over twitter to raise money. Jose flew in on his own dime, put on a great show, and said he would come back again next year to give the guy more time to involve more sponsors to help raise more money. Watching him from the stands he could have been a camera hog but he wasn't at all. ...he does a lot of stuff for attention and for himself but not always

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>Canseco was a loser and idiot who told the truth in a sport that was full of liars. >>



So you believe Clemens was clean? Did you even read any of his books?

Bear48

To Caseco's credit he owned up to his transgressions. Impute motivation if you must. What did the rest of them do? And what does that say about them?

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>Have to say, I don't believe Clemens was clean. >>



The problem when people say Canseco told the truth, is that I have yet to meet one that read his books. Canseco did tell some truths, he obviously also told some non-truths, and I think it is fair to say he had several omissions, such as do you think Canseco knew the drug situation with teams he never played on, that were not even in his league, yet, didn't know his brother and teammate was juicing? Ozzie is on the Mitchell Report.

It is fair to say Canseco told a truth, but that is different then the truth, and as any married person can tell you, it's not hard to tell a truth, and be quite dishonest at the same time.

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>To Caseco's credit he owned up to his transgressions. Impute motivation if you must. What did the rest of them do? And what does that say about them? >>



I think you mean he admitted using steroids. (Which he did to get back at people, and for a paycheck, so he more sold up then owned up.) That or I missed the chapters in his books where he owned up to past transgressions in general.

Perhaps the problem is with others, is where do you draw the line. As a whole, we have not came down on those that used PEDs, but rather those that used one type of PED, commonly referred to as "clear." In the case of clear, most of its users do appear to have admitted use. The guy that sold it named all he could to avoid jail time himself, and was grilled pretty hard on the Senate floor if anyone was watching, I don't think he had a list of 100 people he was protecting. For example, I think every one of the Olympic athletes named, has admitted use. The USA Team lost maybe a dozen gold metals, a few of them being from relay teams.

But in reality, clear was just one of many drugs being used at the time (including up till today) and one of 100s over the years. PED's have been in sports since the turn of last century. Where we draw the line, what the answer is, who gets more blame, I can't answer. I will leave that to those with multiple degrees, who sadly will likely be paid by the various sports and working to cover their own interest.

Congress should have empowered Mitchell to question anyone under oath, and the starting point should have likely been way before 1990, if we were ever going to know the truth. It's fair to say, the ship has sailed and with it the real facts.

bking

<< <i>To Caseco's credit he owned up to his transgressions. Impute motivation if you must. What did the rest of them do? And what does that say about them? >>



But he owned up and admitted his trangressions when he had nothing to lose. Guys like Clemens, McGwire and Raffy has hall aspirations, or were at least concerned about their place in baseball. Canseco wasn't going to sniff the hall, wasn't going to sniff any baseball-related job, and was basically in need of PR and money more than anything else. I'm glad he got the information out there for discussion, but there wasn't anything noble about him doing so.

jmmiller777

Well said MeteoriteGuy. And while we are discussing these guys, Baseball's front office must take a whole bunch of blame. Remember, a lot of what was first identified was not illeagal at the time. In fact much of the roids used were of the type that is still consistiently used for injurys, and more specific, sports injuries. Maybe not the extreme levels used, but they were "healing juices." Even now, the penalty by MLB is a joke, even after all of these carreers that have ended early or have been destroyed; the penalty is a joke. This is my biggest beef with Bud, not all the other crud out there against him.

123Slider

I'm as anti-steroid as anyone could possibly be. That being said, Canseco is about as slimy as you get for things way beyond the steroids.

I'd throw him out with the rest of the trash and not lose a minutes sleep. He thought he was black balled by MLB and he likely was but not just because of the steroids, but rather the adolescent garbage that came with him.

Bear48

I'm surprised by the support expressed for those who many consider to be cheaters and liars. I say keep them all out of the Hall for now and let the Veterans Committee sort out the mess when the time comes.

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>I'm surprised by the support expressed for those who many consider to be cheaters and liars. I say keep them all out of the Hall for now and let the Veterans Committee sort out the mess when the time comes. >>




I'm a little confused here. Didn't you express support for Canseco a page or so ago?