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Chop marks on trade dollars

DentuckDentuck Posts: 3,819 ✭✭✭
I recently sent my kudos to Coin World editor Steven Roach, regarding Jeff Starck and his article “X Marks the Chop” in the May 7 issue. It's an engaging exploration of chopmarked coins and their place in today’s hobby. I remember the first chopped trade dollar I encountered in person: an otherwise solid VF-20 with a mysterious counterstamp sunk into the obverse, nearly hidden in the details of Miss Liberty’s bale of commercial goods.

In Starck’s article, researcher and collector Howard A. Daniel III is quoted: “I believe the ‘Red Book’ should include something about chops on U.S. Trade dollars because they are now slabbed and acceptable.”

The Red Book does in fact mention the subject: “Many pieces that circulated in the Orient were counterstamped with Oriental characters, known as chop marks” (page 224 in the 2013 edition). Since the 2005 edition, a phrase that was in earlier editions has been removed: “These are generally valued lower than normal prices.”

And here’s an intriguing note from the 1947 edition of the Red Book (published in late 1946): “U.S. Trade dollars are still circulating in the Orient.” I imagine many of those were chopmarked, since in 1887 the Treasury was authorized to redeem any coins that were not “mutilated.”

If you haven't read Jeff Starck's informative and interesting article, I recommend it.


Comments

  • 123cents123cents Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭
    Great article. I would love to see one with a wedding chop mark.
    image
  • DentuckDentuck Posts: 3,819 ✭✭✭
    The wedding chop was very cool, and something that was completely
    off my "numismatic radar."



  • stealerstealer Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭✭
    Personally I don't think chopped T$1's should be assigned monetary values since chopped ones can sell all over the map due to the numerous amount of factors playing into the value.
  • OGDanOGDan Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Personally I don't think chopped T$1's should be assigned monetary values since chopped ones can sell all over the map due to the numerous amount of factors playing into the value. >>


    Agreed. It would be quite hard to generalize them for deciding a value, the number of chop marks and placement are important to eye appeal witch is all subjective anyway.
  • COALPORTERCOALPORTER Posts: 2,900 ✭✭
    Somewhere, I saw a vintage photo of several GIs in Asian jungle?? looking at trade dollars spread out
    on the ground on a metal roofing panel. They were trying to barter with natives to buy them.
  • crypto79crypto79 Posts: 8,623


    << <i>check out the pictures >>



    Or maybe they will want to check out the 1# set from our very own DDR image

    I love both sets to be honest, amazing difficult coins but together by true fans of the series, good as it gets. When are you going to update your 73p TDN?
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just noticed that it was the old one


    Edited to add: I see that set is retired, which is why I haven't updated it. Still have all the coins, tho - including an NGC 'genuine' 1875 chop
  • crypto79crypto79 Posts: 8,623


    << <i>

    << <i>Personally I don't think chopped T$1's should be assigned monetary values since chopped ones can sell all over the map due to the numerous amount of factors playing into the value. >>


    Agreed. It would be quite hard to generalize them for deciding a value, the number of chop marks and placement are important to eye appeal witch is all subjective anyway. >>



    This is spot on but maybe an index/range to aide collector. Like a date chart with rarity multipliers

    Some coins are worth much more with choice chops, 4x normal
  • OGDanOGDan Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Some coins are worth much more with choice chops, 4x normal >>


    That 77p went for golly gee willickers money.
  • crypto79crypto79 Posts: 8,623
    Also not all Chops are easy to see, this one was missed by PCGS and will result in a buy back one day.
    Check the right breast on the Obv
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm fascinated by these as I've been traveling quite a bit to China since I was a pup in 1989. I have yet to buy one but enjoy posts like this. I think TomB's TD that is so "marked" up that it looks like it could fall apart at any moment is quite cool. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,179 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Enjoyed looking at TDN's and DDR's sets, they really set the bar high. Chopmarks, with their somewhat bizarre morphology and seemingly random (or not?) placement, add spice to to this deeply historic coin series.

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,179 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Also not all Chops are easy to see, this one was missed by PCGS and will result in a buy back one day.
    Check the right breast on the Obv >>



    Sharp eyes, Crypto. Note the description by the auction company extolling the lack of chopmarks. Oops.
  • crypto79crypto79 Posts: 8,623


    << <i>

    << <i>Also not all Chops are easy to see, this one was missed by PCGS and will result in a buy back one day.
    Check the right breast on the Obv >>



    Sharp eyes, Crypto. Note the description by the auction company extolling the lack of chopmarks. Oops. >>



    I cant take credit as it was our fellow eagle eye trade buddy Tenn Dave. Dave even wrote to HA to tell them only to get told they think it is a strike through basically passing the buck to pcgs in the future while still collecting their cut. A 74cc is worth much more unchopped and if you blow the pic up you can see a perfect circle as part of the mark

    Lame
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,179 ✭✭✭✭✭
    T.Dave has a great eye.. that is hilarious that H.A. calls that a strike through... blow it up and try to explain that as some random piece of debris, LOL. Hoo Weee...image

    My 74-cc is a lowly choppie:

    image
    image
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,474 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is the highest graded example I have. The rest are Carson City examples.

    image
    image

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • DDRDDR Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the shout-out Crypto. Putting that set together has been a labor of love over the past 10 years.

    As for prices for chopmarked Trade dollars, they are all over the place. In general, for more common coins you can usually usually go down one grade in value for lightly chopped coins and two grades for heavily chopped coins. But that's a very general guideline. For some Trade dollars that are rarely if ever seen chopmarked, like the 75-P and 78-CC, the sky is the limit in terms of value/price.

    That 77-P went for insane money. I know, I bid on it and lost out.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would not have paid that for the 77. My MS61 cost me like $400
  • crypto79crypto79 Posts: 8,623


    << <i>I would not have paid that for the 77. My MS61 cost me like $400 >>



    To be fair to who ever the present owner is, I am sure there have been quite a few coins purchased by you that (similar/same) sold for many multiples later down the road. Although 4k reeks of a bidding war
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

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