Am I paranoid or are they really out to get me?

Klif50

I'm an older guy and have some vision problems but I do like to shop ebay. I was just on looking to see if I could pick up some silver dollars for around melt and after looking at a bunch I have this sick feeling in my stomach that I can't tell what is real or a copy from the pictures. It used to be easy to pick out the copies from China but now everything looks fake to me. I don't feel secure in buying circulated raw Morgan or Peace dollars any longer and I'm seriously trying to figure out if the Chinese have started to copy better earlier dated walking halves. And are they putting out fake silver eagles?

Now the real question is am I paranoid from reading the threads here for so many years or are the raw coins starting to look more and more fake?

MidLifeCrisis

I never spend any real money on raw coins. I always buy certified. The counterfeiters are just getting too good.

Timbuk3

You're not paranoid. Better to buy graded coins
if I was in your situation !!!!

Klif50

I just hate to buy graded for bullion. My Kennedy set is all PCGS and I've gotten it all off of ebay but I'm pretty sure they are all real and all real pretty. It just worries me that I used to be able to buy a silver dollar and never sweat it and now everything is suspect.

LindeDad

Welcome to the club of collectors that realize that slabs are cheap insurance at almost any level of purchases in coins in this day and age. It's usually easier to spot the fake slab than it is to spot the fake coin RAW.

bosco5041

I would rather buy off of reputable dealers even if I have to pay a little more.

AUandAG

Buy from a dealer you trust.

bob

Klif50

Actually I have a pool of trusted ebay dealers, most of who are active here and most I've know back from the RCC (rec.collecting.coins) news group and I'd trust anything they have for sale. But I do like to shop and I do like people with "make an offer" but I just don't feel secure in buying anything that isn't in a PCGS slab. I know most of the across the street and other company slabs are probably OK but when I started buying slabbed coins I decided to stick with PCGS. Then I never have to question if it's going to cross of it things are slipping across the street or any of that. The eyes just don't have it anymore and I can't risk money based on what I see. There is only 2 local dealers within about 40 miles. One sells antiques and he has a motorized multi-level watch case that he puts his coins in and everything is priced and that is the price and most of the coins have been there a lonnnggg time. The other is in Marietta and it's a small shop and I've bought and sold stuff there but they don't like dealing in slabs and I almost bought a raw trade dollar from them but then had them put it on the scale and it was way light so I don't feel like I can trust them (they still grade CH BU, GEM BU). Anyway, those are my issues and I'll deal with them but I will remain paranoid about stuff on the net.

ShinyThingsInPM

I buy some raw stuff on ebay and as soon as I get it I send it to PCGS to certify

This way you know if you've got a real stuff and if it's a fake you can fill out an ebay NAD claim and get your money back

Works our very well

DarkStar

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they're not out to get you.

WhiteTornado

Not really paranoia as much as being vigilant. It's tough to buy raw coins in general, but especially from eBay these days.

SamByrd

there are a few very good deals on the BST right now. Don't buy junk or near melt silver on ebay is my advice.

If you want a particular date or mint or condition do a WTB add its free and you will get a good result.

lcoopie

Not paranoid


Getting smarter?


(they are out to get $)

LindeDad

Sorry but the class of fakes coming out of China now are fooling some of the dealers is what I am hearing. So even buying from a trusted dealer has some draw backs and if you look downstream to selling some day. Will it be any better then for you to be trying to sell RAW coins?

astrorat

<< <i>Buy from a dealer you trust.

bob >>

This.

mariner67

<< <i>Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they're not out to get you. >>



Hey, paranoids are common.
I see them around every corner!

michiganboy

<< <i>Sorry but the class of fakes coming out of China now are fooling some of the dealers is what I am hearing. So even buying from a trusted dealer has some draw backs and if you look downstream to selling some day. Will it be any better then for you to be trying to sell RAW coins?
>>



This is the True, also even slabs are faked with real sandwiches coins or out right fakes in them, that have some people left wondering whats what. I buy most of my coins raw, its easier to inspect them fully and I like to hold the raw coin at least once before its entombed.

lkeigwin

If the fakes are so good they're fooling everyone then, well, I guess they're not fake.
Lance.

TwoSides2aCoin

Maybe you should find a Brick and Mortar guy for your raw stuff who you can trust. I would volunteer but this would implicate me in a spamming scheme. Forgive me for posting.

CarlWohlforth

I buy better Morgans that are certified from established sellers with confidence. For bullion I buy ASEs or other bullion from one of the big online bullion traders, it is hard to beat their prices.

keyman64

<< <i>I never spend any real money on raw coins. I always buy certified. The counterfeiters are just getting too good. >>

GoldenEyeNumismatics

This forum makes the problem appear worse than it is.

TheBigB

If your interest in Morgan and Peace dollars is mainly for bullion accumulation, I would switch to ASEs or premium bars/rounds too.

Unfortunately the counterfeit situation is not going to get better any time soon.

LanceNewmanOCC

.
don't you dare let fear stop you from getting what you want in this life - i direct you to the following quote:

"our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt"
.

magikbilly

Hi,

"...like dealing in slabs and I almost bought a raw trade dollar from them but then had them put it on the scale and it was way light so I don't feel like I can trust them (they still grade CH BU, GEM BU)."

I don't have to have it in a slab, but I why stay away from them? "Still" - as in Ch is 65 and Gem is 67? That is how it was before the misplacement of "Select" 63. I don't know - you should sound more enthusiastic about your B&M or go elsewhere with your $. And what is posted right above by Lance - that is true.

Best wishes,
Eric

TwoSides2aCoin

You are not paranoid.
They are out to get you.

RedTiger

Unfortunately, Ebay and Craigslist are two of the favorite venues to move fakes. Millions of dollars in value of fakes are being moved into collections each year, so it is good to be cautious. For bullion coins, a decent scale and calipers to measure, and dropping coins for the ring test for the sound of silver, will help a good deal in terms of weeding out cast fakes, or pot metal, or steel fakes.

As far as certified, it is even more unfortunate that the biggest dollar value scams mostly involve fake slabs. Some of the fake slabs have fake coins, some may have a real coin, but in at a higher grade. The best fake slabs will fool most Ebay buyers.

The best thing for a novice or an average collector to do is to buy from trusted dealers. Dealers that have been in business for a while, and offer a lifetime authenticity guarantee. Many of them sell on Ebay or have their own websites. A few sharpies have the skills to authenticate, but that percentage in terms of collectors will never be more than about 5% against quality fakes, and the fakes get better every year.

Keep in mind that many a collector that buys a fake online may sell it at the local coin club auction or flea market, so venue alone is no longer a way to protect yourself.

As far as the problem being blown out of proportion, the percentage of fake coins may still be relatively low, at least in terms of high quality fakes. However, if it is say 1% fake, then if a person does 100 transactions, they are likely to get one fake. Thinking in those terms, the percentage of buyers stung by fakes gets real high real fast.