For those of you that say silver is just silver, look at this.
piecesofme
Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
crazy 10 oz bar
Even I know where to draw the line on "premium" silver, but this is about as outrageous as I have ever seen!
Even I know where to draw the line on "premium" silver, but this is about as outrageous as I have ever seen!
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
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Still, that is just stupid money. I'd sell mine in a heartbeat for half that
Editied to add that hopefully CaptHenway/Tom DeLorey will see this thread and give his opinion since when he was working at Harlan-Burk they handled a lot of silver bullion bars.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The last lot of 7 sold for $2330.
I bought one a while back and recently sold on eBay at $399, it took me a while to sell too.
My buyer had few couples for sale at $950 and they didn't sell at all.
A fair offer would be $340/350, IMO.
I have to add that is one of the coolest bars I owned.
The 1 ozers too are very nice. I have never seen a 5 oz bar.
Though, the best out there in my opinion is now the 10 oz Perth Mint bar.
<< <i>LOL $350, and the seller wants $2250???? The nerve some people have! I ask what I feel is fair based on current values factoring in what I have in the item and got accussed of gouging recently, but this takes the cake. >>
It is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. The $2250 number is just to anchor the offers higher. If he put it up at $500/make an offer, then he has exactly zero % chance to sell it for over $500.
I would add to that if I could...in an up market. I'm trying to sell stuff at the same percentage from Spot as I did when silver was trending up and am having a harder time. So I think the direction of the trend plays a huge factor in being able to price items as what is perceived as "fairly".
If I'm working off the same percentage as I did in an up market, why wont items sell as quickly in a down market?
Answer: Less tolerance to the risk of actually holding the physical product.
They can dremel, Sucker, and the name on the back when someone buys it.
Note the seller has 39 for his feedback. The funny part is the shipping charge. That damm shipping!!!
<< <i>I was referring to the current market. I do not see any reasonably priced silver here or on the BST. But that's just me. >>
Agree. Too many common bars with big premiums over melt value on the BST. Sorry, but I'm already buried in overprice silver bars.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I recall a few short years back (mid '09) when Spot Silver was around $15, trying to find it for less than $18-19 was considered a bargain and that went on for at least 6 months. Maybe that anomaly is being revisited?
I am not seeing that. My favorite B&M is still selling for spot + $1.50. It was like that today, and it was like that when silver was $48, and it was like that at every price point in between.
<< <i>He is playing with the fact that there is only one on eBay...
I have to add that is one of the coolest bars I owned.
The 1 ozers too are very nice. I have never seen a 5 oz bar.
Though, the best out there in my opinion is now the 10 oz Perth Mint bar.
I agree with you on this.
All I'm saying is it happened (around here anyway), and it didn't matter what quantity you bought. From about $14 to $18 Spot, there was a Spot + $3 premium for regular old silver bars. Once Spot got over $20 and stayed there and was actually booming, more inventory became available. $20 Spot was the hurdle everyone was waiting for and once it eclipsed it, more people were selling because they thought that was the absolute top and they wanted to cash in.
I honestly don't think that is the case now, at least not for the exact same reasons, but it is a possiblility that I am willing to consider.
If everyone selling here and on eBay is overpriced, what is that telling me? It tells me that some people are still willing to pay $35/oz even with Spot under $29 and surely heading down further. So even after eBay fees, the seller still nets $32/oz. Why sell for less than what the market is bringing?
Spot is merely a number. If someone wants product, they will pony up and pay the premium. If someone says they're "looking to add", then I could see how they want to pay as close to Spot as possible. It's almost a case of semantics imo.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>crazy 10 oz bar
Even I know where to draw the line on "premium" silver, but this is about as outrageous as I have ever seen! >>
I have seen some outrageous ebay winning bids on 1-oz Coca-Cola bars. Here is the latest example of an outrageous winning bid that I have seen on a Coca-Cola silver bar:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/COCA-COLA-SILVER-ART-BAR-999-SILVER-mt-hood-EXTEMELY-RARE-/150804284708?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item231ca2c524
This is a Mount Hood Coca-Cola 1-oz Coca-Cola silver art bar that went for just over $3000 on ebay. It is a very hard to find Coca-Cola bar but this particular bar usually fetches a winning bid that is between $500 and $700 on ebay. That $3000 winning bid is 4X to 6X what is usually goes on ebay.
<< <i>You should consider yourself blessed then, because that was going on around here from mid '09 til early '10 at every coin store...and they were getting it.
All I'm saying is it happened (around here anyway), and it didn't matter what quantity you bought. From about $14 to $18 Spot, there was a Spot + $3 premium for regular old silver bars. Once Spot got over $20 and stayed there and was actually booming, more inventory became available. $20 Spot was the hurdle everyone was waiting for and once it eclipsed it, more people were selling because they thought that was the absolute top and they wanted to cash in.
I honestly don't think that is the case now, at least not for the exact same reasons, but it is a possiblility that I am willing to consider.
If everyone selling here and on eBay is overpriced, what is that telling me? It tells me that some people are still willing to pay $35/oz even with Spot under $29 and surely heading down further. So even after eBay fees, the seller still nets $32/oz. Why sell for less than what the market is bringing?
Spot is merely a number. If someone wants product, they will pony up and pay the premium. If someone says they're "looking to add", then I could see how they want to pay as close to Spot as possible. It's almost a case of semantics imo. >>
Ebay is the closest thing that we have to a free market place and when it comes to old bars and silver art bars, then the ebay marketplace will dictate the value of a certain bar. That is especially true for "collectible" gold and silver bars and coins because collectors are going to bid it up to what they think it is worth. For people who are stacking silver for SHTF prepping or to hedge against inflation, then they will not buy it on ebay but go to a LCS or a major online dealer (such as Tulving) to get it at the lowest premium over spot. Ebay is ideal for sellers who have bought collectible gold and silver coins and bars for generic premiums that they know will fetch a lot more on ebay than at a LCS.
<< <i>Maybe that anomaly is being revisited?
I am not seeing that. My favorite B&M is still selling for spot + $1.50. It was like that today, and it was like that when silver was $48, and it was like that at every price point in between. >>
I wish my main B&M was still charging spot + $1.50. Before May 2011, my B&M used to charge $1 to $1.50 over spot. After the first silver smackdown on May 2011, my main B&M raised the generic silver premium to spot + $3.00. After the 2nd silver smackdown in late September that saw spot hit $26, then the local B&Ms raised their generic silver premium to spot + $4, but I am glad that the main B&M that I go to kept their generic silver premium at spot + $3.
I agree with your premise that certain old / art bars work well on ebay, but I do not understand why people pay spot + $6 for a generic, readily available 10 oz Engelhard. I passed on quite a few of those yesterday because the guy wanted spot +$5. I can get them all day long for substantially lower than that.
If I knew that, I would be buying puts / ZSL hand over fist.
I hope that you're not in denial like others here Mark. 15% down in last 3 months as I pointed out here with the volitility that creates opportunity all but gone is clearly a bear trend looking at it short term as I do.
I could care less what the 1, 3, or even 10 year trend is. All that matters to someone like me that buys to sell to buy (I've explained this before) is what's happening the last month tops.
<< <i>If everyone selling here and on eBay is overpriced, what is that telling me? It tells me that some people are still willing to pay $35/oz even with Spot under $29 and surely heading down further. So even after eBay fees, the seller still nets $32/oz. Why sell for less than what the market is bringing?
Spot is merely a number. If someone wants product, they will pony up and pay the premium. If someone says they're "looking to add", then I could see how they want to pay as close to Spot as possible. It's almost a case of semantics imo. >>
Well said. I totally agree that spot is just a number when it comes to buying physical metal. Premiums definitely fluctuate based on a bunch of factors.
Because I know honesty is always appreciated, I will answer with my honest opinion.
It tells me that alot of people are bs'ers when they say they are "stackers" A person who considers themself to be a stacker firmly believes the current value of the metal is horribly undervalued and considers these levels to be a steal. So they feel so what if they have to pay a bit of a premium (when the demand at a slight premium is still clearly present) in order to "keep on stackin'"
That may not set well with alot of people, but you asked what it tells me, and that is how I honestly feel.
The flipside of that is people who add when they can with the funds available to them...that is not a stacker. That is someone who is constantly trying to catch a bottom. When anyone figures that out on a consistent basis, I will pay them for their services to manage my money.
opportunity all but gone is clearly a bear trend looking at it short term as I do.
Again, SLV / AGQ puts or ZSL would be a far more profitable path if you "know" it is going lower. Much easier and faster than flipping. It also depends on your time frame. It's down 35% from last year's peak in August. It's up ~7% since Christmas 2011.
If I "knew" it was going lower this week, I wouldn't have bought yesterday (like I did). If I "think" it may go lower this week, or next, that alone will not drive my decisions.
eBay selling at Spot + $7 for common bars in some cases.
This tells me that some people have more money than sense. There are plenty of avenues available on the web that offer far better deals without the potential for deals gone wrong, if you believe all the ebay horror stories.
The flipside of that is people who add when they can with the funds available to them...that is not a stacker. That is someone who is constantly trying to catch a bottom.
How can you add without the funds available?
Just trying to kill some time on a lazy Sunday afternoon.
<< <i>If you have a popular brand of bar on the BST and no one is trying to buy it at your quoted price that should tell you something.
Because I know honesty is always appreciated, I will answer with my honest opinion.
It tells me that alot of people are bs'ers when they say they are "stackers" A person who considers themself to be a stacker firmly believes the current value of the metal is horribly undervalued and considers these levels to be a steal. So they feel so what if they have to pay a bit of a premium (when the demand at a slight premium is still clearly present) in order to "keep on stackin'"
That may not set well with alot of people, but you asked what it tells me, and that is how I honestly feel. >>
I have to disagree on your definition of a stacker.
Yes they feel the metal is undervalued, but they feel that it is just that... Metal. So a 25% premium on a silver bar would be out of the question. There are plenty of deals for these guys at 2-5%.
Then there are the silver round/bar Collector. These guys are the ones that pay well over the 25% premium to get that elusive art bar/rare round/old pour that they absolutely have to have.
Last you have your Collector within the stacker, these guys stack metal at different premiums because all of a sudden a light switches in their head that says "I think that My stack would look better with 100 ounces of maple leaves with each of the queens Obverses. Or 100 Ozs of A-mark chunkeys or Engelhard maple leaves would look great in the stack....
All three of these people are going to be happy in a 50% price move up... The stacker who made a great profit, the collector who doesn't care if he still isn't in the black because he loves what he has, and the collector within the stacker, who managed a profit and still got to take pleasure in staring at something other than generic buffalo rounds.
Just my Honest Opinion
It's all about what the people want...
Everyone has their own "gameplan" and ultimately we have to go with what we know works for each of us. It's just a perspective thing and I think it is healthy to openly discuss it all. It helps to see something we may have not even considered.
But back to the reason I posted this thread...that's just insane to even ask what the eBayer is for that bar imo. It will drive more people away than will bring offers. Again, jmho.
I had a chance to buy 2 today at a local show, but the dealer wanted $1000 for both and would not split up. As crazy as it sounded, I considered it momentarily, but then quickly came to my senses and could almost hear the voices here that would say, it's just another piece of Silver LOL
None taken on my part. You'll need to do a LOT better than this to get me offended.
<< <i>If you have a popular brand of bar on the BST and no one is trying to buy it at your quoted price that should tell you something. >>
true but could we also add to be any brand of silver?...
the small % of ebay buyers of phyzz silver at outrageous prices has given some a false sense of reality of what some silver will sell for...
what ebay does provide is a true price on a specific item that is set at auction with no reserve, period...so u net approx 12% less +-...
many try to command the ebay price at a net price...but imo the uninformed ebay buyer paying prices way over spot isnt on boards like these buying...
thats y to paraphrase like perry hall said if it hasnt moved fast its overpriced...
and if i bought some silver at $40 an oz, y should someone buy it from me @ $41 an oz when silver is at spot $20 an oz because i have to make my $$$ back...lol
phyzz stackers can buy all they want at .99 over spot all day long for months almost a year now...
there is more than enough to be bought since spot moved under the 200 dma...
<< <i>crazy 10 oz bar
Even I know where to draw the line on "premium" silver, but this is about as outrageous as I have ever seen! >>
if it doesnt sell the ask price is meaningless...
the Hungry Joe seller weaves a tall tale and is always looking for a mark to buy his goods...
I am guessing that the 'B' might be 'Bullion'. But 'M'
???
<< <i>What exactly is a 'B&M' anyway?
I am guessing that the 'B' might be 'Bullion'. But 'M'
??? >>
B & M = Brick and Mortar = an actual coin shop rather than an internet merchant
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>What exactly is a 'B&M' anyway?
I am guessing that the 'B' might be 'Bullion'. But 'M'
??? >>
B & M = Brick and Mortar = an actual coin shop rather than an internet merchant >>
Thanks guys.