Investigation into this reputed Philadelphia US Mint bell I saw in 1966 in the older US Mint buildin

oreville

The thread that Shows pictures and original information about this bell is labeled *wow, this belongs in a museum*

This thread will explain what I have done to determine the provenance of this very small bell that looks very OLD!
Here goes:

I had an fascinating conversation with Jeff Bell.

According to his inspection limited to the pictures and my responses to specific questions about the bell itself, he believes this bell was made between the 1790's and the 1830's.

He further stated that it is NOT American made. He stated that it distinctively appears to be done by sand cast mold which was done in Great Britain.

He then remarked that because it was manufactured in Great Britain, it was more likely to have been made in the very "late 18th century or early" 19th century. I asked what he meant by "early" 19th Century.

He emphasized prior to 1808 when the first of the American bell manufacturers was born in East Hampton, CT.

Jeff believes it is quite possible that this bell (which he speculates may be an alarm bell) was installed in the First Building (1792-1833) and then removed from such building and re-installed in the Second Building (1833-1901).

He also hypothesizes that the pully and chain was made by remarkably gifted blacksmiths of the era. I remarked if that could included experienced metal engravers at the US Mint. He responded immediately in the affirmative.

He observed that because the bell had so little exterior rust yet exhibited significant rust inside the bell meant it was most likely used indoors.

He also mentioned that bells were NOT used as doorbells until the 1830's. The use of this bell had to initially be used as an alarm or security notification when originally installed.

He is contacting other members of the American Bell Association to further study the pictures of the bell and to study it in person.

He is the initial opinion that it was manufactured by WhiteChapel Bell Foundry in London. They are famed for manufacturing the bells of Big Ben.

Since the company still exists, he suggests that I take this bell to England and verify what year it was manufactured if personal inspection does not specify the year this bell was manufactured.

This information is blowing me away.

This is a sample page from google regrding some of Jeff Bell's work:

`Bell Talk` • View forum - Small Bells
www.americanbell.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=6&start=450
Bell Manufacturer in East Hampton Connecticut by jeff Bell » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:41 am: 0 Replies: 1170 Views: Last post by jeff Bell Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:41 am ...
`Bell Talk` • View forum - Bell Foundries, Manufacturers and Artisans
www.americanbell.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=5&start=150
by jeff Bell » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:11 am: 1 Replies: 3026 Views: Last post by cannonmn. Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:17 pm. Ross-Meehan Bell by rweaver » Thu Feb 15, ...
`Bell Talk` • View topic - Harrison and Davis Foundry
www.americanbell.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=479
by jeff Bell » Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:54 pm. Wonder if someone can help me identify location and dates of operation for a large bell foundry named," Harrison and ...
`Bell Talk` • View topic - Whatzit? bell. Please help identify.
www.americanbell.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=406
9 posts - 5 authors - Feb 23, 2007
Have one just like it. Years ago, I won a bid on Ebay which I thought was an unsual bell. Turns not that I was mislead. Trust this is helpful. Jeff ...
`Bell Talk` • View topic - Brasss / Bronze Foundries in U.S.A.
www.americanbell.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=211
2 posts - 2 authors
by jeff Bell » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:11 am. I'm in the process of listing brass and bronze foundries that have operated in the U.S. ( See list below ). Intent is to ...
`Bell Talk` • View topic - old school bells
www.americanbell.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=869
5 posts - 3 authors - Jul 7, 2008
To a collector the size stamping is a vital piece of information in determing the manufacturer and time frame in which the bell was produced. Jeff ...
`Bell Talk` • View topic - Bell Manufactures In Connecticut
www.americanbell.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=214
1 post - 1 author
Bell Manufactures In Connecticut. Post by jeff Bell » Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:11 pm. Seeking historical information on companies in East Hampton, New Britain ...
`Bell Talk` • View topic - Bell Manufacturer in East Hampton ...
www.americanbell.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=385
Bell Manufacturer in East Hampton Connecticut. Post by jeff Bell » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:41 am. Gracious Good Day to All, Seeking information, as dates of ...
`Bell Talk` • View topic - Hand Bells At Arabia Steamboat Museum
www.americanbell.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=242
2 posts - 2 authors - Aug 9, 2006
by jeff Bell » Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:01 pm. Seeking information on hand bells recovered from steamboat ARABIA which may be on display at ...
`Bell Talk` • View topic - Brass or bronze Hand Bell Collectors
www.americanbell.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=197
1 post - 1 author
by jeff Bell » Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:25 am. Seeking other ABA members having interest in collecting brass or bronze hand bells, AKA Teacher's / School, Town ...

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*Gatekeeper & Slabkeeper* 2011 is the 55th Anniversary of the 1956 song "In The Still of the Night" by The Five Satins

Edited: Thursday May 10, 2012 at 9:23 PM by oreville

Lakesammman

Jeff Bell? Gotta love it.

Thanks for the followup - can't wait to see what you uncover down the road.

I don't get the explanation of the rust inside rather than out - can you expand on that??

kiyote

Good to see this is all working out! The hunt itself is a thrill, no? Almost as much as the bell itself.

keyman64

Cool post. So when are you going to London with your bell?

Coinosaurus

Great story. Keep going!

Swampboy

I LOVE a good mystery.
Awaiting further installments.

WinPitcher

I remember when you first posted about this and the pictures you showed.

Thanks for the followup and continued success with this.


Steve

Nysoto

Thanks for the fascinating infomation on the early bell, and keep us posted. It is interesting to read about the bells of various sizes cast by Paul Revere & Sons after ~1792, of which much is recorded in the Revere Papers of the Massachusetts Historical Society.

oreville

Well, in honor of this information,

I rented War Horse and Iron Lady two British films from Red Box. LOL.

oreville

I had to put this project on hold as the people doing the research from London were very busy with their involvement in the 2012 Olympics in London.

Now things are returning to normal for them.

Nysoto

Here is some information from a 1795 Mint document that proves the First Mint had a bell:

"Every workman and labourer shall attend in the morning, after breakfast, and after dinner, at the stated hour, at which time the bell of the Mint will be rung, and in case anyone shall be absent himself for fifteen minutes thereafter, he shall forfeit a sum equal to his wages for the rest of the day, but if anyone shall repeat such forfeitures more than twice in one week, he shall be reported to the director by the assistant to the chief coiner, or the foreman of the Mint, as a person undeserving of employment."

This paragraph is from "Orders and Directions for conducting the Mint of the United States, established by Elias Boudinot, director of said Mint. November 2, 1795." I had referenced this document within my article in the last JRJ "Robert Scot's Engraving Report to the Congressional Committee on the Mint." Elias Boudinot had this document published soon after his appointment as Director in October of 1795. Much of the information in the 11/2/1795 document came from Boudinot's earlier investigation of the Mint's operation, when he was a Representative in Congress from New Jersey.

The early Mint workers were at the Mint for thirteen hours, eleven of which were paid, with one hour breakfast and dinner breaks. As the First Mint had at least 10 buildings, it is possible they had more than one bell. From Boudinot's "Orders and directions," the rules on adherence to time were actually very strict, requiring the use of a bell.

AUandAG

So, have we purchased tickets to London yet?

bob