Canadian large cent 1859 narrow 9 over 8?

Pokermandude

1960NYG's thread with all his 1859 large cents spurred me into getting around to posting about this one. It's an 1859 large cent that appears to be a narrow 9 punched over 8. The 9 is definitely not the same "wide 9" that was normally used. It seems a little bit "bolder" than the narrow 9, but not nearly as fat as the wide 9.

I haven't tracked down exactly what variety #/etc it might be. 1960NYG your thoughts would be most welcome

syl

There is no one specific 9/8, also called a "wide 9 over 8". The minting of the Canadian Provincial Large Cents began late in 1858 and they were still striking some 1858's in early 1859 (long story). They took a different font "9" punch and handpunched the new, larger-font 9 over the remaining 1858 working dies to begin the 1859 mintages. There were 13 different reverse working dies handpunched with the 9/8's. There is no "narrow 9/8", because the narrow 9 wouldn't cover all of the width of the underlying 8. For the remainder of the 9 million plus 1859 Cent mintages, the master punch used to make the Provincial Large Cent working dies had the 8 (that is raised in relief) entirely removed, ground down to the field. All 1859's (narrow 9's) then had the final digit handpunched into each working die. Since it took 2-4 cycles of annealing, punching and then hardening again, almost all 1859's will show double or triple punching on the final digit .. since no 2 blows with the hammer and punch landed exactly in the same place. The 5's were also cleaned up and sometimes the 1. The 8's always show some doubling from the hub.

Because of the dirt on your coin, I can't tell for sure but it looks like Turner Reverse die RD2 which was used on 4.0% of all the overpunched dated cents. It is always married with Obverse die OI1, also a Turner number. To learn more about the Provincial large cents (1858 & 59), get a copy of Rob Turner's "The 1858 Cents of Provincial Canada, Vol 2". Volume 1 covers the 1858 mintages of all the denominations as far as historical content goes, and then tracks each of the 1858 working dies. Vol 2 does the same for the 9/8's. His 3rd book, covers the 1876-1901 Large Cents, with working die registers for the 1891's complete. More is coming from him. EXCELLENT books, but you will pay for the knowledge. I worked with him on all of them.

1960NYGiants

Pokermandude - I cannot add anything more to what Bill posted. He and Rob (Bosox on these boards) are the sources for much of my knowledge.

Pokermandude

Thanks for the info

I haven't bathed this one in acetone. Not sure if I want to since who knows what might be under that much gunk. There's a few other visible pits in it already.

YQQ

Pokerman
a bit of aceton and a sharp Hawthorne
cleans out all the crud from the nooks and grannys corners..
and does not harm the coin

Pokermandude

Yes, I am familiar with acetone and coins. But there are times when what lies beneath isn't pleasant. Such as pitting from corrosion. I'll have to dig this coin out of my bank box one day and take a closer look to see what I should do with it.