<< <i>A solution of Hydrochloric Acid could be used to eliminate the milk spots as it would dissolve the Bismuth Oxide and not affect the silver. I would have to play around with this but I no longer have a lab that could perform the tests. I don't know what the ASE's would look like once this was done. But, that would be a starting point. Take note PCGS. You can send the check to my address on file. bob >>
Since a mild form of hydrochloric acid is in our digestive juices,I might suggest trying to pee on a milk spot first before potentially blowing up your house with dangerous chemicals!Also Chlorox bleach is a diluted form of hydrocloric acid. >>
Wrong! Bleach is hypochlorite and not hydrochloric acid. >>
<< <i>A solution of Hydrochloric Acid could be used to eliminate the milk spots as it would dissolve the Bismuth Oxide and not affect the silver. I would have to play around with this but I no longer have a lab that could perform the tests. I don't know what the ASE's would look like once this was done. But, that would be a starting point. Take note PCGS. You can send the check to my address on file. bob >>
Since a mild form of hydrochloric acid is in our digestive juices,I might suggest trying to pee on a milk spot first before potentially blowing up your house with dangerous chemicals!Also Chlorox bleach is a diluted form of hydrocloric acid. >>
Wrong! Bleach is hypochlorite and not hydrochloric acid. >>
This bismuth / milkspot theory needs more proof than what I've read here so far.
Someone needs to send coins milkspotted vs. non-milkspotted, with known sources of the originating silver ore, i.e., Idaho source vs. a bismuth source to a metallurgical analysis lab for the bismuth content to be measured.
Anybody got coins with known traceability?
Just wondering.
I'm not discounting the idea, but objective evidence needs to be obtained. Otherwise, this is another internet rumor becoming fact.
<< <i>But since Sunshine Minting has been making the blanks for the USMint SAE blanks, they have had to import LOTS of silver." >>
Per the law that created the American Eagle program, the metals have to come from US mined sources. >>
the metals need to come from us sources if sourcing from them is possible. the mint is allowed to open market purchase, and that can included non-us sources. >>
(2) The Secretary may sell or use Government silver to mint coins, except silver transferred to stockpiles established under the Strategic and Critical Materials Stock Piling Act (50 U.S.C. 98 et seq.). The Secretary shall obtain the silver for the coins authorized under section 5112 (e) of this title by purchase from stockpiles established under the Strategic and Critical Materials Stock Piling Act (50 U.S.C. 98 et seq.). At such time as the silver stockpile is depleted, the Secretary shall obtain silver as described in paragraph (1) to mint coins authorized under section 5112 (e). If it is not economically feasible to obtain such silver, the Secretary may obtain silver for coins authorized under section 5112 (e) from other available sources. The Secretary shall not pay more than the average world price for silver under any circumstances. As used in this paragraph, the term “average world price” means the price determined by a widely recognized commodity exchange at the time the silver is obtained by the Secretary. The Secretary shall sell silver under conditions the Secretary considers appropriate for at least $1.292929292 a fine troy ounce. >>
Be careful that you do not confuse regular silver for "collector" coinage with Silver and Gold for Eagles since silver for collector coins, which includes silver proof sets and silver commemorative coins, CAN and often is purchased from sources outside the USA. Blanks for the 90% Silver quarters have been purchased from the Perth Mint in Australia for years.
The PNLY reason that Ed Moy made the decision to NOT produce burnished or proof silver eagles for 2009 and burnished coins for 2010 was that there simply was not enough "eligible" silver available from US sources. >>
Im still going to disagree.
I'm going to say there was a worldwide planchet supply issue that was later cleared with addition of manufacturing capacity.
At least until I fiund out otherwise.
I think the law is fairly clear, too. 5112 (e) is SAE to be made. Paragraph (1) of this: the Secretary shall obtain silver as described in paragraph (1) to mint coins authorized under section 5112 (e). refers to US and Territories mined silver The law then goes onto say if (1) isn't feasible economically, then "other sources" are ok.
To me that is clear, if it can't be found in the US, then the other places it can be found is ok and those other places are in the rest of the world. >>
Below is a list of the coins under section 5112 (e):
(1) a dollar coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter. (2) a half dollar coin that is 1.205 inches in diameter and weighs 11.34 grams. (3) a quarter dollar coin that is 0.955 inch in diameter and weighs 5.67 grams. (4) a dime coin that is 0.705 inch in diameter and weighs 2.268 grams. (5) a 5-cent coin that is 0.835 inch in diameter and weighs 5 grams. (6) except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, a one-cent coin that is 0.75 inch in diameter and weighs 3.11 grams. (7) A fifty dollar gold coin that is 32.7 millimeters in diameter, weighs 33.931 grams, and contains one troy ounce of fine gold. (8) A twenty-five dollar gold coin that is 27.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 16.966 grams, and contains one-half troy ounce of fine gold. (9) A ten dollar gold coin that is 22.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 8.483 grams, and contains one-fourth troy ounce of fine gold. (10) A five dollar gold coin that is 16.5 millimeters in diameter, weighs 3.393 grams, and contains one-tenth troy ounce of fine gold. (11) A $50 gold coin that is of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, weighs 1 ounce, and contains 99.99 percent pure gold. (12) A $25 coin of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, that weighs 1 troy ounce and contains .9995 fine palladium.
The Silver and Gold Eagles are NOT in the above list. Gold Buffalo's a certain collector coins are, but not the Eagles.
Regarding what the US Mint replied to the authors question: It's not the first time that misinformation was relayed to a numismatic publication r the public and it certainly won't be the last. If you recall, the COA's for the 25th Anniversary Sets were printed with incorrect information.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Below is a list of the coins under section 5112 (e):
(1) a dollar coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter. (2) a half dollar coin that is 1.205 inches in diameter and weighs 11.34 grams. (3) a quarter dollar coin that is 0.955 inch in diameter and weighs 5.67 grams. (4) a dime coin that is 0.705 inch in diameter and weighs 2.268 grams. (5) a 5-cent coin that is 0.835 inch in diameter and weighs 5 grams. (6) except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, a one-cent coin that is 0.75 inch in diameter and weighs 3.11 grams. (7) A fifty dollar gold coin that is 32.7 millimeters in diameter, weighs 33.931 grams, and contains one troy ounce of fine gold. (8) A twenty-five dollar gold coin that is 27.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 16.966 grams, and contains one-half troy ounce of fine gold. (9) A ten dollar gold coin that is 22.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 8.483 grams, and contains one-fourth troy ounce of fine gold. (10) A five dollar gold coin that is 16.5 millimeters in diameter, weighs 3.393 grams, and contains one-tenth troy ounce of fine gold. (11) A $50 gold coin that is of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, weighs 1 ounce, and contains 99.99 percent pure gold. (12) A $25 coin of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, that weighs 1 troy ounce and contains .9995 fine palladium.
The Silver and Gold Eagles are NOT in the above list. Gold Buffalo's a certain collector coins are, but not the Eagles.
Regarding what the US Mint replied to the authors question: It's not the first time that misinformation was relayed to a numismatic publication r the public and it certainly won't be the last. If you recall, the COA's for the 25th Anniversary Sets were printed with incorrect information. >>
<< <i>(e) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary shall mint and issue, in qualities and quantities that the Secretary determines are sufficient to meet public demand, coins which— (1) are 40.6 millimeters in diameter and weigh 31.103 grams; (2) contain .999 fine silver; (3) have a design— (A) symbolic of Liberty on the obverse side; and (B) of an eagle on the reverse side; (4) have inscriptions of the year of minting or issuance, and the words “Liberty”, “In God We Trust”, “United States of America”, “1 Oz. Fine Silver”, “E Pluribus Unum”, and “One Dollar”; and (5) have reeded edges. >>
(e) is further down on that same page. (that whole page is Section 5112, the paragraphs (a) - (v) are on that one page.)
more on the AGEs is under (i) which is even further down (you obviously know (a)(7)-(10) are for AGEs) platinum under (k) presidential dollars are under (n) first spouse is (o) buff's under (q) (and (a)(11)) native american (r) ATB quarters under (t) ATB 5oz silver (u) palladium plan under (v) (and (a)(12))
Where are those proofs? those 5oz P Pucks?
The Mint has authority to make "numismatic items" granted under 5111(a)3
(a) The Secretary of the Treasury— (1) shall mint and issue coins described in section 5112 of this title in amounts the Secretary decides are necessary to meet the needs of the United States; (2) may prepare national medal dies and strike national and other medals if it does not interfere with regular minting operations but may not prepare private medal dies; (3) may prepare and distribute numismatic items; and (4) may mint coins for a foreign country if the minting does not interfere with regular minting operations, and shall prescribe a charge for minting the foreign coins equal to the cost of the minting (including labor, materials, and the use of machinery).
shall - the same as must. may - the same as "is allowed to"
another nail in the coffin of the 2009 Proofs.
they must make bullion ASEs, they are only allowed to make the proofs. However, the Coin Modernization Act changed the wording in the bullion parts of 5112 such that the Treasury Sec. has some discretion in the amounts made. Now that they have power to decide the amounts of bullion products, in another 2009-like year they can decide to have some """extra capacity""" not used in making bullion to throw out a few Proofs for the proof ASE fans. The bullion "must" requirement will still be met since some will be made, but now they have discretion with how many are made.
(PS: and I'll bet they still lean towards favoring bullion over proofs into the future just because the way the law is worded.)
How does all this chemistry explain the fact that many people swear that if you dip SAEs in acetone as soon as you break them out of the govt. packaging, they will not form milk spots - ever?
<< <i>How does all this chemistry explain the fact that many people swear that if you dip SAEs in acetone as soon as you break them out of the govt. packaging, they will not form milk spots - ever? >>
It doesn't.
That I've heard, but perhaps those that I've heard it from did not have ASE's that would ever produce milkspots. Some do and some obviously do not. I've owned 10 to 1 those that do not over those that do. I'm stretching saying that it's even Bismuth. Unfortunately my reference material and mining references and refining references have been given to my son. He's in ND so will take a bit to get what I need back to do some further research. Would love to solve the problem!
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
<< <i>Below is a list of the coins under section 5112 (e):
(1) a dollar coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter. (2) a half dollar coin that is 1.205 inches in diameter and weighs 11.34 grams. (3) a quarter dollar coin that is 0.955 inch in diameter and weighs 5.67 grams. (4) a dime coin that is 0.705 inch in diameter and weighs 2.268 grams. (5) a 5-cent coin that is 0.835 inch in diameter and weighs 5 grams. (6) except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, a one-cent coin that is 0.75 inch in diameter and weighs 3.11 grams. (7) A fifty dollar gold coin that is 32.7 millimeters in diameter, weighs 33.931 grams, and contains one troy ounce of fine gold. (8) A twenty-five dollar gold coin that is 27.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 16.966 grams, and contains one-half troy ounce of fine gold. (9) A ten dollar gold coin that is 22.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 8.483 grams, and contains one-fourth troy ounce of fine gold. (10) A five dollar gold coin that is 16.5 millimeters in diameter, weighs 3.393 grams, and contains one-tenth troy ounce of fine gold. (11) A $50 gold coin that is of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, weighs 1 ounce, and contains 99.99 percent pure gold. (12) A $25 coin of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, that weighs 1 troy ounce and contains .9995 fine palladium.
The Silver and Gold Eagles are NOT in the above list. Gold Buffalo's a certain collector coins are, but not the Eagles.
Regarding what the US Mint replied to the authors question: It's not the first time that misinformation was relayed to a numismatic publication r the public and it certainly won't be the last. If you recall, the COA's for the 25th Anniversary Sets were printed with incorrect information. >>
<< <i>(e) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary shall mint and issue, in qualities and quantities that the Secretary determines are sufficient to meet public demand, coins which— (1) are 40.6 millimeters in diameter and weigh 31.103 grams; (2) contain .999 fine silver; (3) have a design— (A) symbolic of Liberty on the obverse side; and (B) of an eagle on the reverse side; (4) have inscriptions of the year of minting or issuance, and the words “Liberty”, “In God We Trust”, “United States of America”, “1 Oz. Fine Silver”, “E Pluribus Unum”, and “One Dollar”; and (5) have reeded edges. >>
>>
LOL! Who knows? It's the government and it really depends upon who published what and when.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
(e) is further down on that same page. (that whole page is Section 5112, the paragraphs (a) - (v) are on that one page.)
more on the AGEs is under (i) which is even further down (you obviously know (a)(7)-(10) are for AGEs) platinum under (k) presidential dollars are under (n) first spouse is (o) buff's under (q) (and (a)(11)) native american (r) ATB quarters under (t) ATB 5oz silver (u) palladium plan under (v) (and (a)(12))
Where are those proofs? those 5oz P Pucks?
The Mint has authority to make "numismatic items" granted under 5111(a)3
(a) The Secretary of the Treasury— (1) shall mint and issue coins described in section 5112 of this title in amounts the Secretary decides are necessary to meet the needs of the United States; (2) may prepare national medal dies and strike national and other medals if it does not interfere with regular minting operations but may not prepare private medal dies; (3) may prepare and distribute numismatic items; and (4) may mint coins for a foreign country if the minting does not interfere with regular minting operations, and shall prescribe a charge for minting the foreign coins equal to the cost of the minting (including labor, materials, and the use of machinery).
shall - the same as must. may - the same as "is allowed to"
another nail in the coffin of the 2009 Proofs.
they must make bullion ASEs, they are only allowed to make the proofs. However, the Coin Modernization Act changed the wording in the bullion parts of 5112 such that the Treasury Sec. has some discretion in the amounts made. Now that they have power to decide the amounts of bullion products, in another 2009-like year they can decide to have some """extra capacity""" not used in making bullion to throw out a few Proofs for the proof ASE fans. The bullion "must" requirement will still be met since some will be made, but now they have discretion with how many are made.
(PS: and I'll bet they still lean towards favoring bullion over proofs into the future just because the way the law is worded.) >>
OK Fine. You win. This accounts for the milk spots on the silver eagles.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Since a mild form of hydrochloric acid is in our digestive juices,I might suggest trying to pee on a milk spot first before potentially blowing up your house with dangerous chemicals!
I'm waiting for someone to report back to us on this.
I'm also really hoping to read about the 50K award going to this suggestion!
And finally, I'm looking forward to hearing how PCGS and NCS implement this new technology. Imagine the corporate tours...
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
(e) is further down on that same page. (that whole page is Section 5112, the paragraphs (a) - (v) are on that one page.)
more on the AGEs is under (i) which is even further down (you obviously know (a)(7)-(10) are for AGEs) platinum under (k) presidential dollars are under (n) first spouse is (o) buff's under (q) (and (a)(11)) native american (r) ATB quarters under (t) ATB 5oz silver (u) palladium plan under (v) (and (a)(12))
Where are those proofs? those 5oz P Pucks?
The Mint has authority to make "numismatic items" granted under 5111(a)3
(a) The Secretary of the Treasury— (1) shall mint and issue coins described in section 5112 of this title in amounts the Secretary decides are necessary to meet the needs of the United States; (2) may prepare national medal dies and strike national and other medals if it does not interfere with regular minting operations but may not prepare private medal dies; (3) may prepare and distribute numismatic items; and (4) may mint coins for a foreign country if the minting does not interfere with regular minting operations, and shall prescribe a charge for minting the foreign coins equal to the cost of the minting (including labor, materials, and the use of machinery).
shall - the same as must. may - the same as "is allowed to"
another nail in the coffin of the 2009 Proofs.
they must make bullion ASEs, they are only allowed to make the proofs. However, the Coin Modernization Act changed the wording in the bullion parts of 5112 such that the Treasury Sec. has some discretion in the amounts made. Now that they have power to decide the amounts of bullion products, in another 2009-like year they can decide to have some """extra capacity""" not used in making bullion to throw out a few Proofs for the proof ASE fans. The bullion "must" requirement will still be met since some will be made, but now they have discretion with how many are made.
(PS: and I'll bet they still lean towards favoring bullion over proofs into the future just because the way the law is worded.) >>
OK Fine. You win. This accounts for the milk spots on the silver eagles. >>
<< <i>Since a mild form of hydrochloric acid is in our digestive juices,I might suggest trying to pee on a milk spot first before potentially blowing up your house with dangerous chemicals!
I'm waiting for someone to report back to us on this.
I'm also really hoping to read about the 50K award going to this suggestion!
And finally, I'm looking forward to hearing how PCGS and NCS implement this new technology. Imagine the corporate tours... >>
I do not think that we excrete hydrochloric acid when we pee.
Considering the low levels and that the molten silver would be somewhat uniform, why does the bismuth separate out into spots as opposed to the entire surface being uniformly covered in milky white? Is the bag of surfactant/rinse aid that was recently shown here used in the polishing step or is there another wash and rinse step after that that wasn't shown?
<< <i>Considering the low levels and that the molten silver would be somewhat uniform, why does the bismuth separate out into spots as opposed to the entire surface being uniformly covered in milky white? Is the bag of surfactant/rinse aid that was recently shown here used in the polishing step or is there another wash and rinse step after that that wasn't shown? >>
If the contaminant is bismuth, I fail to see how acetone is going to remove it. What kind of chemistry and what kind of bismuth species is consistent with the appearance of the spots over time and exposure to oxygen and or water? The shape of the spots suggest that they are waterborne. I still believe there are 2 different spotting issues here. I was recently looking at a few ASEs I still have left and a few have tea colored spots.
Bismuth is a rust-inhibitor when used as an additive in lubricating oil and grease. Some commercial products contain it. That is how it gets on the silver blanks - not as an impurity in the bullion, but from incidental splatter. Any facility with machinery could potentially have oil or grease with bismuth.
<< <i>PCGS has offered a $50,000 cash award to anyone who can devise a method to remove the white-ish milk spots from silver bullion and other assorted coins. The coins must be able to be reholdered at the same or higher grade after treatment. >>
That can not be done. The "milk spots" are a form of corrosion. You can't undo corrosion and get back the original mint luster that was obliterated by the corrosion.
<< <i>hydrochloric acid bath and rinse before the minting process would be even better. >>
I thought about that but I am not convinced that that is the way to go. Striking of the blank creates a LOT of heat and that is what causes the Bismuth to oxidize. I don't know the reaction to Hydrochloric acid on Bismuth itself. That is what labs are for!
Is the Sunshine mint or the US Mint offering a reward to solve this????
bob >>
No, striking a Silver Eagle does NOT generate a lot of heat - hardly any heat at all, in fact. I strike 1-0z silver rounds all the time, and drop them in my hand immediately after striking. They don't even feel warm (unless they were severely broad-struck, in which case they might be hot to the touch, but not burning hot).
Well, I know I shouldn't..... but I can't resist. New Bomb Our Website sells LOTS of modern silver proof coins... state quarters, halves, dimes, etc. And we find milkspots on these coins also.... Here's the Bomb..... Sunshine ALSO produces the blanks for these coins..... oooops
It's been stated any number of times that prior to 1921 that the mint made a change in the process that they used for producing the silver planchets. This change was likely some form of acid wash [probably hydrochloric acid] and is believed to account for the pronounced differences in the intensity with which 1921 Morgans and Peace dollars tone in comparison to the earlier Morgans. Also IIRC spotting is quite a problem with Peace dollars and has been an issue off and on with silver coins ever since. The spots are silver chloride which could only come from contact with HCl or other chloride source during the production process.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>A solution of Hydrochloric Acid could be used to eliminate the milk spots as it would dissolve the
Bismuth Oxide and not affect the silver. I would have to play around with this but I no longer
have a lab that could perform the tests. I don't know what the ASE's would look like once this
was done. But, that would be a starting point. Take note PCGS.
You can send the check to my address on file.
bob
Since a mild form of hydrochloric acid is in our digestive juices,I might suggest trying to pee on a milk spot first before potentially blowing up your house with dangerous chemicals!
Wrong! Bleach is hypochlorite and not hydrochloric acid. >>
Ok,ty. I was wrong.
Have a Great Day!
Louis
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>A solution of Hydrochloric Acid could be used to eliminate the milk spots as it would dissolve the
Bismuth Oxide and not affect the silver. I would have to play around with this but I no longer
have a lab that could perform the tests. I don't know what the ASE's would look like once this
was done. But, that would be a starting point. Take note PCGS.
You can send the check to my address on file.
bob
Since a mild form of hydrochloric acid is in our digestive juices,I might suggest trying to pee on a milk spot first before potentially blowing up your house with dangerous chemicals!
Wrong! Bleach is hypochlorite and not hydrochloric acid. >>
Ok,ty. I was wrong. >>
Sorry, wasn't intending to sound terse.
Someone needs to send coins milkspotted vs. non-milkspotted, with known sources of the originating silver ore, i.e., Idaho source vs. a bismuth source to a metallurgical analysis lab for the bismuth content to be measured.
Anybody got coins with known traceability?
Just wondering.
I'm not discounting the idea, but objective evidence needs to be obtained. Otherwise, this is another internet rumor becoming fact.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>But since Sunshine Minting has been making the blanks for the USMint SAE blanks, they have had to import LOTS of silver." >>
Per the law that created the American Eagle program, the metals have to come from US mined sources. >>
the metals need to come from us sources if sourcing from them is possible. the mint is allowed to open market purchase, and that can included non-us sources. >>
1 USC § 5116 - Buying and selling gold and silver
(2) The Secretary may sell or use Government silver to mint coins, except silver transferred to stockpiles established under the Strategic and Critical Materials Stock Piling Act (50 U.S.C. 98 et seq.). The Secretary shall obtain the silver for the coins authorized under section 5112 (e) of this title by purchase from stockpiles established under the Strategic and Critical Materials Stock Piling Act (50 U.S.C. 98 et seq.). At such time as the silver stockpile is depleted, the Secretary shall obtain silver as described in paragraph (1) to mint coins authorized under section 5112 (e). If it is not economically feasible to obtain such silver, the Secretary may obtain silver for coins authorized under section 5112 (e) from other available sources. The Secretary shall not pay more than the average world price for silver under any circumstances. As used in this paragraph, the term “average world price” means the price determined by a widely recognized commodity exchange at the time the silver is obtained by the Secretary. The Secretary shall sell silver under conditions the Secretary considers appropriate for at least $1.292929292 a fine troy ounce. >>
Be careful that you do not confuse regular silver for "collector" coinage with Silver and Gold for Eagles since silver for collector coins, which includes silver proof sets and silver commemorative coins, CAN and often is purchased from sources outside the USA. Blanks for the 90% Silver quarters have been purchased from the Perth Mint in Australia for years.
The PNLY reason that Ed Moy made the decision to NOT produce burnished or proof silver eagles for 2009 and burnished coins for 2010 was that there simply was not enough "eligible" silver available from US sources. >>
Im still going to disagree.
I'm going to say there was a worldwide planchet supply issue that was later cleared with addition of manufacturing capacity.
At least until I fiund out otherwise.
I think the law is fairly clear, too. 5112 (e) is SAE to be made. Paragraph (1) of this:
the Secretary shall obtain silver as described in paragraph (1) to mint coins authorized under section 5112 (e).
refers to US and Territories mined silver
The law then goes onto say if (1) isn't feasible economically, then "other sources" are ok.
To me that is clear, if it can't be found in the US, then the other places it can be found is ok and those other places are in the rest of the world. >>
Below is a list of the coins under section 5112 (e):
(1) a dollar coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter.
(2) a half dollar coin that is 1.205 inches in diameter and weighs 11.34 grams.
(3) a quarter dollar coin that is 0.955 inch in diameter and weighs 5.67 grams.
(4) a dime coin that is 0.705 inch in diameter and weighs 2.268 grams.
(5) a 5-cent coin that is 0.835 inch in diameter and weighs 5 grams.
(6) except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, a one-cent coin that is 0.75 inch in diameter and weighs 3.11 grams.
(7) A fifty dollar gold coin that is 32.7 millimeters in diameter, weighs 33.931 grams, and contains one troy ounce of fine gold.
(8) A twenty-five dollar gold coin that is 27.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 16.966 grams, and contains one-half troy ounce of fine gold.
(9) A ten dollar gold coin that is 22.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 8.483 grams, and contains one-fourth troy ounce of fine gold.
(10) A five dollar gold coin that is 16.5 millimeters in diameter, weighs 3.393 grams, and contains one-tenth troy ounce of fine gold.
(11) A $50 gold coin that is of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, weighs 1 ounce, and contains 99.99 percent pure gold.
(12) A $25 coin of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, that weighs 1 troy ounce and contains .9995 fine palladium.
The Silver and Gold Eagles are NOT in the above list. Gold Buffalo's a certain collector coins are, but not the Eagles.
Regarding what the US Mint replied to the authors question: It's not the first time that misinformation was relayed to a numismatic publication r the public and it certainly won't be the last. If you recall, the COA's for the 25th Anniversary Sets were printed with incorrect information.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Below is a list of the coins under section 5112 (e):
(1) a dollar coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter.
(2) a half dollar coin that is 1.205 inches in diameter and weighs 11.34 grams.
(3) a quarter dollar coin that is 0.955 inch in diameter and weighs 5.67 grams.
(4) a dime coin that is 0.705 inch in diameter and weighs 2.268 grams.
(5) a 5-cent coin that is 0.835 inch in diameter and weighs 5 grams.
(6) except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, a one-cent coin that is 0.75 inch in diameter and weighs 3.11 grams.
(7) A fifty dollar gold coin that is 32.7 millimeters in diameter, weighs 33.931 grams, and contains one troy ounce of fine gold.
(8) A twenty-five dollar gold coin that is 27.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 16.966 grams, and contains one-half troy ounce of fine gold.
(9) A ten dollar gold coin that is 22.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 8.483 grams, and contains one-fourth troy ounce of fine gold.
(10) A five dollar gold coin that is 16.5 millimeters in diameter, weighs 3.393 grams, and contains one-tenth troy ounce of fine gold.
(11) A $50 gold coin that is of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, weighs 1 ounce, and contains 99.99 percent pure gold.
(12) A $25 coin of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, that weighs 1 troy ounce and contains .9995 fine palladium.
The Silver and Gold Eagles are NOT in the above list. Gold Buffalo's a certain collector coins are, but not the Eagles.
Regarding what the US Mint replied to the authors question: It's not the first time that misinformation was relayed to a numismatic publication r the public and it certainly won't be the last. If you recall, the COA's for the 25th Anniversary Sets were printed with incorrect information. >>
Which 5112(e) reference is that from? That seems very different from the 31 USC § 5112(e) listing at Cornell Law School:
<< <i>(e) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary shall mint and issue, in qualities and quantities that the Secretary determines are sufficient to meet public demand, coins which—
(1) are 40.6 millimeters in diameter and weigh 31.103 grams;
(2) contain .999 fine silver;
(3) have a design—
(A) symbolic of Liberty on the obverse side; and
(B) of an eagle on the reverse side;
(4) have inscriptions of the year of minting or issuance, and the words “Liberty”, “In God We Trust”, “United States of America”, “1 Oz. Fine Silver”, “E Pluribus Unum”, and “One Dollar”; and
(5) have reeded edges. >>
(e) is further down on that same page. (that whole page is Section 5112, the paragraphs (a) - (v) are on that one page.)
more on the AGEs is under (i) which is even further down (you obviously know (a)(7)-(10) are for AGEs)
platinum under (k)
presidential dollars are under (n)
first spouse is (o)
buff's under (q) (and (a)(11))
native american (r)
ATB quarters under (t)
ATB 5oz silver (u)
palladium plan under (v) (and (a)(12))
Where are those proofs? those 5oz P Pucks?
The Mint has authority to make "numismatic items" granted under 5111(a)3
(a) The Secretary of the Treasury—
(1) shall mint and issue coins described in section 5112 of this title in amounts the Secretary decides are necessary to meet the needs of the United States;
(2) may prepare national medal dies and strike national and other medals if it does not interfere with regular minting operations but may not prepare private medal dies;
(3) may prepare and distribute numismatic items; and
(4) may mint coins for a foreign country if the minting does not interfere with regular minting operations, and shall prescribe a charge for minting the foreign coins equal to the cost of the minting (including labor, materials, and the use of machinery).
shall - the same as must.
may - the same as "is allowed to"
another nail in the coffin of the 2009 Proofs.
they must make bullion ASEs, they are only allowed to make the proofs. However, the Coin Modernization Act changed the wording in the bullion parts of 5112 such that the Treasury Sec. has some discretion in the amounts made. Now that they have power to decide the amounts of bullion products, in another 2009-like year they can decide to have some """extra capacity""" not used in making bullion to throw out a few Proofs for the proof ASE fans. The bullion "must" requirement will still be met since some will be made, but now they have discretion with how many are made.
(PS: and I'll bet they still lean towards favoring bullion over proofs into the future just because the way the law is worded.)
<< <i>How does all this chemistry explain the fact that many people swear that if you dip SAEs in acetone as soon as you break them out of the govt. packaging, they will not form milk spots - ever? >>
It doesn't.
That I've heard, but perhaps those that I've heard it from did not have ASE's that would ever produce
milkspots. Some do and some obviously do not. I've owned 10 to 1 those that do not over those that
do. I'm stretching saying that it's even Bismuth. Unfortunately my reference material and mining
references and refining references have been given to my son. He's in ND so will take a bit to get what
I need back to do some further research. Would love to solve the problem!
bob
<< <i>
<< <i>Below is a list of the coins under section 5112 (e):
(1) a dollar coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter.
(2) a half dollar coin that is 1.205 inches in diameter and weighs 11.34 grams.
(3) a quarter dollar coin that is 0.955 inch in diameter and weighs 5.67 grams.
(4) a dime coin that is 0.705 inch in diameter and weighs 2.268 grams.
(5) a 5-cent coin that is 0.835 inch in diameter and weighs 5 grams.
(6) except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, a one-cent coin that is 0.75 inch in diameter and weighs 3.11 grams.
(7) A fifty dollar gold coin that is 32.7 millimeters in diameter, weighs 33.931 grams, and contains one troy ounce of fine gold.
(8) A twenty-five dollar gold coin that is 27.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 16.966 grams, and contains one-half troy ounce of fine gold.
(9) A ten dollar gold coin that is 22.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 8.483 grams, and contains one-fourth troy ounce of fine gold.
(10) A five dollar gold coin that is 16.5 millimeters in diameter, weighs 3.393 grams, and contains one-tenth troy ounce of fine gold.
(11) A $50 gold coin that is of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, weighs 1 ounce, and contains 99.99 percent pure gold.
(12) A $25 coin of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, that weighs 1 troy ounce and contains .9995 fine palladium.
The Silver and Gold Eagles are NOT in the above list. Gold Buffalo's a certain collector coins are, but not the Eagles.
Regarding what the US Mint replied to the authors question: It's not the first time that misinformation was relayed to a numismatic publication r the public and it certainly won't be the last. If you recall, the COA's for the 25th Anniversary Sets were printed with incorrect information. >>
Which 5112(e) reference is that from? That seems very different from the 31 USC § 5112(e) listing at Cornell Law School:
<< <i>(e) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary shall mint and issue, in qualities and quantities that the Secretary determines are sufficient to meet public demand, coins which—
(1) are 40.6 millimeters in diameter and weigh 31.103 grams;
(2) contain .999 fine silver;
(3) have a design—
(A) symbolic of Liberty on the obverse side; and
(B) of an eagle on the reverse side;
(4) have inscriptions of the year of minting or issuance, and the words “Liberty”, “In God We Trust”, “United States of America”, “1 Oz. Fine Silver”, “E Pluribus Unum”, and “One Dollar”; and
(5) have reeded edges. >>
>>
LOL! Who knows? It's the government and it really depends upon who published what and when.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>that list is from (a) not (e)
(e) is further down on that same page. (that whole page is Section 5112, the paragraphs (a) - (v) are on that one page.)
more on the AGEs is under (i) which is even further down (you obviously know (a)(7)-(10) are for AGEs)
platinum under (k)
presidential dollars are under (n)
first spouse is (o)
buff's under (q) (and (a)(11))
native american (r)
ATB quarters under (t)
ATB 5oz silver (u)
palladium plan under (v) (and (a)(12))
Where are those proofs? those 5oz P Pucks?
The Mint has authority to make "numismatic items" granted under 5111(a)3
(a) The Secretary of the Treasury—
(1) shall mint and issue coins described in section 5112 of this title in amounts the Secretary decides are necessary to meet the needs of the United States;
(2) may prepare national medal dies and strike national and other medals if it does not interfere with regular minting operations but may not prepare private medal dies;
(3) may prepare and distribute numismatic items; and
(4) may mint coins for a foreign country if the minting does not interfere with regular minting operations, and shall prescribe a charge for minting the foreign coins equal to the cost of the minting (including labor, materials, and the use of machinery).
shall - the same as must.
may - the same as "is allowed to"
another nail in the coffin of the 2009 Proofs.
they must make bullion ASEs, they are only allowed to make the proofs. However, the Coin Modernization Act changed the wording in the bullion parts of 5112 such that the Treasury Sec. has some discretion in the amounts made. Now that they have power to decide the amounts of bullion products, in another 2009-like year they can decide to have some """extra capacity""" not used in making bullion to throw out a few Proofs for the proof ASE fans. The bullion "must" requirement will still be met since some will be made, but now they have discretion with how many are made.
(PS: and I'll bet they still lean towards favoring bullion over proofs into the future just because the way the law is worded.) >>
OK Fine. You win. This accounts for the milk spots on the silver eagles.
The name is LEE!
I'm waiting for someone to report back to us on this.
I'm also really hoping to read about the 50K award going to this suggestion!
And finally, I'm looking forward to hearing how PCGS and NCS implement this new technology. Imagine the corporate tours...
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>
<< <i>that list is from (a) not (e)
(e) is further down on that same page. (that whole page is Section 5112, the paragraphs (a) - (v) are on that one page.)
more on the AGEs is under (i) which is even further down (you obviously know (a)(7)-(10) are for AGEs)
platinum under (k)
presidential dollars are under (n)
first spouse is (o)
buff's under (q) (and (a)(11))
native american (r)
ATB quarters under (t)
ATB 5oz silver (u)
palladium plan under (v) (and (a)(12))
Where are those proofs? those 5oz P Pucks?
The Mint has authority to make "numismatic items" granted under 5111(a)3
(a) The Secretary of the Treasury—
(1) shall mint and issue coins described in section 5112 of this title in amounts the Secretary decides are necessary to meet the needs of the United States;
(2) may prepare national medal dies and strike national and other medals if it does not interfere with regular minting operations but may not prepare private medal dies;
(3) may prepare and distribute numismatic items; and
(4) may mint coins for a foreign country if the minting does not interfere with regular minting operations, and shall prescribe a charge for minting the foreign coins equal to the cost of the minting (including labor, materials, and the use of machinery).
shall - the same as must.
may - the same as "is allowed to"
another nail in the coffin of the 2009 Proofs.
they must make bullion ASEs, they are only allowed to make the proofs. However, the Coin Modernization Act changed the wording in the bullion parts of 5112 such that the Treasury Sec. has some discretion in the amounts made. Now that they have power to decide the amounts of bullion products, in another 2009-like year they can decide to have some """extra capacity""" not used in making bullion to throw out a few Proofs for the proof ASE fans. The bullion "must" requirement will still be met since some will be made, but now they have discretion with how many are made.
(PS: and I'll bet they still lean towards favoring bullion over proofs into the future just because the way the law is worded.) >>
OK Fine. You win. This accounts for the milk spots on the silver eagles. >>
and Bismuth was a German Battleship!
<< <i>Since a mild form of hydrochloric acid is in our digestive juices,I might suggest trying to pee on a milk spot first before potentially blowing up your house with dangerous chemicals!
I'm waiting for someone to report back to us on this.
I'm also really hoping to read about the 50K award going to this suggestion!
And finally, I'm looking forward to hearing how PCGS and NCS implement this new technology. Imagine the corporate tours... >>
I do not think that we excrete hydrochloric acid when we pee.
<< <i>I do not think that we excrete hydrochloric acid when we pee. >>
rule 2 joke here!
<< <i>Considering the low levels and that the molten silver would be somewhat uniform, why does the bismuth separate out into spots as opposed to the entire surface being uniformly covered in milky white? Is the bag of surfactant/rinse aid that was recently shown here used in the polishing step or is there another wash and rinse step after that that wasn't shown? >>
If the contaminant is bismuth, I fail to see how acetone is going to remove it. What kind of chemistry and what kind of bismuth species is consistent with the appearance of the spots over time and exposure to oxygen and or water? The shape of the spots suggest that they are waterborne. I still believe there are 2 different spotting issues here. I was recently looking at a few ASEs I still have left and a few have tea colored spots.
That is how it gets on the silver blanks - not as an impurity in the bullion, but from incidental splatter. Any facility with machinery
could potentially have oil or grease with bismuth.
<< <i>PCGS has offered a $50,000 cash award to anyone who can devise a method to remove the white-ish milk spots from silver bullion and other assorted coins. The coins must be able to be reholdered at the same or higher grade after treatment. >>
That can not be done. The "milk spots" are a form of corrosion. You can't undo corrosion and get back the original mint luster that was obliterated by the corrosion.
<< <i>
<< <i>hydrochloric acid bath and rinse before the minting process would be even better. >>
I thought about that but I am not convinced that that is the way to go. Striking of the blank
creates a LOT of heat and that is what causes the Bismuth to oxidize. I don't know the reaction
to Hydrochloric acid on Bismuth itself. That is what labs are for!
Is the Sunshine mint or the US Mint offering a reward to solve this????
bob
No, striking a Silver Eagle does NOT generate a lot of heat - hardly any heat at all, in fact.
I strike 1-0z silver rounds all the time, and drop them in my hand immediately after striking.
They don't even feel warm (unless they were severely broad-struck, in which case they might
be hot to the touch, but not burning hot).
New Bomb
Our Website sells LOTS of modern silver proof coins... state quarters, halves, dimes, etc.
And we find milkspots on these coins also....
Here's the Bomb.....
Sunshine ALSO produces the blanks for these coins.....
oooops
http://www.coinshop.com