Cello Boxes from BBCE - Your Advice?

nendee

If you buy a Cello Box from BBCE - it comes "wrapped" in plastic by BBCE. Assuming you aren't opening any of the cello PACKS, is it advisable to keep it "wrapped"? I asked because I'm tempted so many times to buy a cello box - but the fun (even if you aren't opening the cello) - is to see who you get on the front and back of the unopened pack.

Thoughts?

gemint

Well, I think you defined the pros and cons very well. I'm not sure how much of a premium, if any, the BBCE shrink wrap offers since it's probably not tamper proof. However, there may be a premium if the BBCE card notes the box is from a sealed case. I have a 1982 cello box and 1975 mini from recent PSA forum group rips that I've left in the shrink wrap. Both were from a sealed case, so I prefer to keep them in their shrink wrap. If the '82 cello box wasn't from a case, I'd probably remove the shrink wrap to see if any packs have a Ripken RC showing.

DCanfield

<< <i>If you buy a Cello Box from BBCE - it comes "wrapped" in plastic by BBCE. Assuming you aren't opening any of the cello PACKS, is it advisable to keep it "wrapped"? I asked because I'm tempted so many times to buy a cello box - but the fun (even if you aren't opening the cello) - is to see who you get on the front and back of the unopened pack.

Thoughts? >>


Personally, if it was a wax box I'd say definitely keep it sealed as Steve's reputation will sell it in the future. However, with the way star cellos have been selling I'd probably open it and see if I hit a home run with the packs. They're still cellos and the box will sell if you decide to go that route.

cincyredlegs

I have opened up a 83 topps and fleer cello from sealed cases from BBCE. I wanted to see who was on top/bottom. I kept the plastic and written note from Steve that it was a sealed box with it. I tend not to open the wax boxes though.

Mark

miconelegacy

I would keep it sealed. There will absolutely be a premium paid for BBCE's boxes.

May not be a lot now, but just think 5-10 years down the road. You'll be able to sell if you choose and advertise it that way. Not a better unopened seller in the US.

nendee

Agreed. Especially I suppose if it comes from a sealed case. I cracked the sell on a box of '79 Cellos - but there wasn't much in there anyway. I'm not making that mistake again. For the record, I'm thinking of this box:


1986 FB Cello

dmurphy3mvp

BTW, if anyone can think of a way to seal the boxes, be tamper-proof, and the expense (in time and money) is not too cost prohibitive, we're all ears at BBCE. I've been thinking of ways to do this (have to think about something driving all over the country), not just with unopened boxes but raw packs as well, and the ideas I've developed are mediocre at best. Email me ReedBBCE@gmail.com with any suggestions.

70ToppsFanatic

I agree with Mike. Unopened material that has been verified by an expert will ultimately command a premium. Therefore boxes, racks, etc. that are shrink-wrapped and stickered by Steve should not be unwrapped unless you plan to open them.

gemint

<< <i>BTW, if anyone can think of a way to seal the boxes, be tamper-proof, and the expense (in time and money) is not too cost prohibitive, we're all ears at BBCE. I've been thinking of ways to do this (have to think about something driving all over the country), not just with unopened boxes but raw packs as well, and the ideas I've developed are mediocre at best. Email me ReedBBCE@gmail.com with any suggestions. >>



Have you checked into the cost of having your company name printed randomly across the cellophane and use that to seal the box? Similar to what card manufacturers have used to seal their boxes in the past.

TonyC

<< <i>BTW, if anyone can think of a way to seal the boxes, be tamper-proof, and the expense (in time and money) is not too cost prohibitive, we're all ears at BBCE. I've been thinking of ways to do this (have to think about something driving all over the country), not just with unopened boxes but raw packs as well, and the ideas I've developed are mediocre at best. Email me ReedBBCE@gmail.com with any suggestions. >>



What about printing a BBCE logo on the shrink wrap the way Panini/Topps/UD do? Not "100% tamper-proof," but definitely difficult to replicate.

TonyC

<< <i>

<< <i>BTW, if anyone can think of a way to seal the boxes, be tamper-proof, and the expense (in time and money) is not too cost prohibitive, we're all ears at BBCE. I've been thinking of ways to do this (have to think about something driving all over the country), not just with unopened boxes but raw packs as well, and the ideas I've developed are mediocre at best. Email me ReedBBCE@gmail.com with any suggestions. >>



Have you checked into the cost of having your company name printed randomly across the cellophane and use that to seal the box? Similar to what card manufacturers have used to seal their boxes in the past. >>



I was a minute too slow.

shu4040

Nendee just FYI I've thought of one of those too but those 86 cellos have the 1000 yard cards on top so u dobt have the same fun/chance of most cello boxes in terms of star packs.

nendee

Ah - true shu. So keeping it sealed becomes easier!

DCanfield

<< <i>BTW, if anyone can think of a way to seal the boxes, be tamper-proof, and the expense (in time and money) is not too cost prohibitive, we're all ears at BBCE. I've been thinking of ways to do this (have to think about something driving all over the country), not just with unopened boxes but raw packs as well, and the ideas I've developed are mediocre at best. Email me ReedBBCE@gmail.com with any suggestions. >>



Reed, I brought up the need for such a service the other day. My opinion is that not all packs (especially wax) need to be graded but they need to be authenticated so that long distance BST can be done with some confidence. I think shrink wrap is one part of the solution but you may need a numbered tamper proof hologram/seal to avoid someone copying your shrinkwrap.
Link

grote15

<< <i>

<< <i>BTW, if anyone can think of a way to seal the boxes, be tamper-proof, and the expense (in time and money) is not too cost prohibitive, we're all ears at BBCE. I've been thinking of ways to do this (have to think about something driving all over the country), not just with unopened boxes but raw packs as well, and the ideas I've developed are mediocre at best. Email me ReedBBCE@gmail.com with any suggestions. >>



Reed, I brought up the need for such a service the other day. My opinion is that not all packs (especially wax) need to be graded but they need to be authenticated so that long distance BST can be done with some confidence. I think shrink wrap is one part of the solution but you may need a numbered tamper proof hologram/seal to avoid someone copying your shrinkwrap.
Link >>



Not grading packs is not really an option at this point with the set registry in place already. In addition, the problem with loose gum causing wrapper tears will still be an issue if you buy a pack that has no tears in a scan but it is torn during transit. I think PSA is aware of this and working with different improvements with the holdering process that will hopefully minimize those issues in the future.

DCanfield

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>BTW, if anyone can think of a way to seal the boxes, be tamper-proof, and the expense (in time and money) is not too cost prohibitive, we're all ears at BBCE. I've been thinking of ways to do this (have to think about something driving all over the country), not just with unopened boxes but raw packs as well, and the ideas I've developed are mediocre at best. Email me ReedBBCE@gmail.com with any suggestions. >>



Reed, I brought up the need for such a service the other day. My opinion is that not all packs (especially wax) need to be graded but they need to be authenticated so that long distance BST can be done with some confidence. I think shrink wrap is one part of the solution but you may need a numbered tamper proof hologram/seal to avoid someone copying your shrinkwrap.
Link >>



Not grading packs is not really an option at this point with the set registry in place already. In addition, the problem with loose gum causing wrapper tears will still be an issue if you buy a pack that has no tears in a scan but it is torn during transit. I think PSA is aware of this and working with different improvements with the holdering process that will hopefully minimize those issues in the future. >>



I realize what you are saying but from my point of view, I enjoy the collecting of the pack or better yet the box, not necessarily having a number grade. If you are selling or you collect to have the best, the number is important. However, if you collect for the sheer joy of ownership or recapturing a bygone era, the grade is totally irrelevant. Why do some collectors want sets with high grade cards while others collect it raw just to collect the set with no concern as to how the cards grade? The same is true for unopened. Maybe I'm the only person who will collect a pack or buy a box and not worry "how it grades". My concern is not spending my money on resealed garbage. Am I wrong?

grote15

I realize what you are saying but from my point of view, I enjoy the collecting of the pack or better yet the box, not necessarily having a number grade. If you are selling or you collect to have the best, the number is important. However, if you collect for the sheer joy of ownership or recapturing a bygone era, the grade is totally irrelevant. Why do some collectors want sets with high grade cards while others collect it raw just to collect the set with no concern as to how the cards grade? The same is true for unopened. Maybe I'm the only person who will collect a pack or buy a box and not worry "how it grades". My concern is not spending my money on resealed garbage. Am I wrong?

Well, you can buy lower grade packs or raw packs from Steve and be assured that what you are getting is authentic and unopened. If the grade is not an issue for you, I would recommend that course of action, as the high grade packs are going to command much higher prices due to the set registry. That way you have the best of both worlds. As for boxes, PSA doesn't grade them anyway, so you have to do your homework and make sure you are buying from a reputable source if you are not familiar with what to look for on a wax pack to tell if it's resealed or not.

nendee

I agree with what was said about the pack/boxes leaving with a BBCE Auth scheme. After I buy loose cello from BBCE, the premium earned in trust is lost after I open the box and pull my cellos out of the popcorn. Out of 8 1975 cellos, I'd grade the ones with stars and sell the rest. I can "say" I got it from BBCE, but it's just my word, so I can't always charge the price for a 75 cello showing commons that I would like to. In addition, doesn't Steve help PSA with pack authentication? Having it done in the first place would save PSA a ton of time.

DCanfield

<< <i>I realize what you are saying but from my point of view, I enjoy the collecting of the pack or better yet the box, not necessarily having a number grade. If you are selling or you collect to have the best, the number is important. However, if you collect for the sheer joy of ownership or recapturing a bygone era, the grade is totally irrelevant. Why do some collectors want sets with high grade cards while others collect it raw just to collect the set with no concern as to how the cards grade? The same is true for unopened. Maybe I'm the only person who will collect a pack or buy a box and not worry "how it grades". My concern is not spending my money on resealed garbage. Am I wrong?

Well, you can buy lower grade packs or raw packs from Steve and be assured that what you are getting is authentic and unopened. If the grade is not an issue for you, I would recommend that course of action, as the high grade packs are going to command much higher prices due to the set registry. That way you have the best of both worlds. As for boxes, PSA doesn't grade them anyway, so you have to do your homework and make sure you are buying from a reputable source if you are not familiar with what to look for on a wax pack to tell if it's resealed or not. >>



Personally, I've collected wax for almost 25 years. I have a pretty good degree of confidence in spotting resealed stuff (admittingly learning the hard way in my early dealings). But again, that only works if I can hold the item before purchase. What am I to do if I'm in FL and a pack or box I desire is for sale in Kansas City? This is where authentication and sealing would be beneficial. You schooled me on why PSA packs tear and I know I have the choice to grade or not and accept the small risk that it could be damaged. I've come to the conclusion that if I wish to sell I'll have to accept that risk and have the pack graded. I understand that. But if I have an authenticated only pack I could choose to sell it as is (say it would come back off grade so why spend the money) or send it to PSA who hopefully could grade it immediately as it was sealed by their authenticator. This is the scenario I'm looking at. The beauty is that it would allow us to get our boxes sealed and it would afford beginning collectors a degree of security and confidence in a purchase. Let's face it, the more collectors yields a shorter supply and increases the value of your holdings. Not a thing wrong in anything you've said, I am just approaching a slightly different problem from a slightly different perspective.

grote15

PSA already offers an Authentic non-grade option for those packs that don't meet a minimum grade requested by the submitter. I understand what you're saying but it's simply not realistic to expect that PSA simply abandon the concept of grading packs under these circumstances. When buying raw wax, provenance and the reputation of the seller dictate whether a buyer should have enough confidence to make a purchase. It was that way long before the advent of pack grading and I don't see any reason compelling enough to change that dynamic now.

Edit to add: PSA also does not and never will grade full boxes but as the OP stated, a box purchased and shrinkwrapped by BBCE is obviously going to add a degree of confidence and value for the buyer when the seller decides to sell that box.

DCanfield

<< <i>PSA already offers an Authentic non-grade option for those packs that don't meet a minimum grade requested by the submitter. I understand what you're saying but it's simply not realistic to expect that PSA simply abandon the concept of grading packs under these circumstances. When buying raw wax, provenance and the reputation of the seller dictate whether a buyer should have enough confidence to make a purchase. It was that way long before the advent of pack grading and I don't see any reason compelling enough to change that dynamic now.

Edit to add: PSA also does not and never will grade full boxes but as the OP stated, a box purchased and shrinkwrapped by BBCE is obviously going to add a degree of confidence and value for the buyer when the seller decides to sell that box. >>



I agree. I in no way remotely would recommend that PSA shouldn't grade packs. There definitely is a need for it. My position is simply you don't need 100% of the packs graded and a simple authentication (and sealing) from a trusted expert would work in some occasions (pack not in perfect shape , a less valuable item, etc.). Granted that provenance and reputation is #1. I've been trumpeting that very line for years. But that's exactly the point why this is needed. You don't know everyone. One final example and I'll try not to keep beating this dead horse. You personally don't know me. Let's say I have a box of item x and a wax pack of 197x baseball that's a little worn around the edges. I want to sell them. You say boy, I'd really like to have both of those but I don't know this DCanfield character and no one I know has ever dealt with him. Do I pass and miss an opportunity? Or do we have my scenario. Both items have been examined and sealed. I don't know Doug but I know the authenticator so I have no worries in making a deal because I know that the items are real. I'll decide once I PERSONALLY see the pack if it's worth having graded.

nendee

Since Reed at BBCE is looking into it - I think it's something that does have legs on a BBCE level for sure. In no ways does this replace pack grading, as a matter of fact, my guess is it would encourage MORE pack grading because at that point you have the confidence that it's going to pass an authenticity check.

As I mentioned in my previous post, this gives a ton of promise to older, more common cellos and virtually would open up a new market for wax packs that aren't PSA graded but BBCE authenticated. I could absolutely see this as a great business for BBCE. Heck, as a matter of fact - people may send in older packs/cellos/boxes to get them BBCE authenticated, especially rack packs, etc that you simply don't want cased by PSA and graded.

DCanfield

<< <i>Since Reed at BBCE is looking into it - I think it's something that does have legs on a BBCE level for sure. In no ways does this replace pack grading, as a matter of fact, my guess is it would encourage MORE pack grading because at that point you have the confidence that it's going to pass an authenticity check.

As I mentioned in my previous post, this gives a ton of promise to older, more common cellos and virtually would open up a new market for wax packs that aren't PSA graded but BBCE authenticated. I could absolutely see this as a great business for BBCE. Heck, as a matter of fact - people may send in older packs/cellos/boxes to get them BBCE authenticated, especially rack packs, etc that you simply don't want cased by PSA and graded. >>



Said perfectly. This is what I've been saying and Reed's comments got me back on the soapbox. My apologies if I was unclear. I truly believe there is a need to grade and I believe there is a need to develop a product that does no harm (i.e. tears). I'm confident that will happen hopefully in the near future and not the distant future.

bigreddog

My Advice? RIPPPPPPPPPPPPP them ALL!! FREE the Cards!!!!!!!


John
All American Hobbies Online Store

cpamike

<< <i>My Advice? RIPPPPPPPPPPPPP them ALL!! FREE the Cards!!!!!!! >>



Who invited John to the party?

If you keep them in the packs they are better protected.

Yankees001

I guess if it's an investment leave it alone. If it's just a hobby to you , open it up.

Either way you could meet your goal. Value goes up, or you have fun.

Dave

cpamike

What does it mean if it is a hobby to me, but I like to keep my packs unopened? I think I know the answer.

fiveniner

If I buy I open Post 1970.

nendee

Mike - if you had a BBCE shrink wrapped, tagged from a sealed case of 1975 cello - do you break the shrink to see whose on the front/back of each cello pack - or do you keep it sealed?

grote15

<< <i>Mike - if you had a BBCE shrink wrapped, tagged from a sealed case of 1975 cello - do you break the shrink to see whose on the front/back of each cello pack - or do you keep it sealed? >>



Tear the shrinkwrap! The potential value of any star packs outweighs the small premium added for a shrinkwrapped cello box, imo. For wax, though, I'd leave it shrinkwrapped and have boxes from BBCE from the 70s that I purchased from Steve still in the shrinkwrap as well.

bigreddog

<< <i>

<< <i>My Advice? RIPPPPPPPPPPPPP them ALL!! FREE the Cards!!!!!!! >>



Who invited John to the party?

If you keep them in the packs they are better protected. >>




Not if you rip them and put them in Card savers.

Mike, How come I get the feeling you would be uncomfortable leaving me in a room alone with your "Unopened" LOL!

John
All American Hobbies Online Store