Do you believe pops mean anything when it comes to the darkside?

bidask · April 15, 2012 9:03AM

Do you look at pops ( ngc or pcgs) when buying or selling?

ajaan · April 15, 2012 9:18AM

Yes. Sometimes.

Zohar · April 15, 2012 9:20AM

Not enough track record relative to US coins. Also fact that many Europeans do not slab eliminates adequate comps. I just bought an AU-53 Taler finest known.

marcmoish · April 15, 2012 9:38AM

Great question - pops are very useful in the scheme of things - and helps determine certain scarcity but should not be the sole tool used.

I've found if you study the area of interest really well - books, catalogs plus using various sources including past auction records, together with the pops (I use PCGS & NGC always in tandem to get a better read.) you get a pretty good picture of what is going on with that series or date run.

What might be considered rare with a pop 1 or 2 in essence can truly be a dud that no one bothers to holder. I've seen more than a few auction listings with pop 1 or none higher shrills - the astute collector will know the difference.

Pokermandude · April 15, 2012 9:48AM

For Canadian coins the PCGS+NGC pops definitely have an effect on values for most series/coins.

mnemtsas2 · April 15, 2012 9:49AM

For some countries absolutely. Australia for example now has a enough coins graded for a lot of pre-decimal coins such that top pop coins really do mean something (and the prices they fetch reflect this). The population reports for some other countries I collect are largely meaningless due to the extremely low number of graded coins. In this case I rely on Krause, Heritage, and other auction results I can access online.

JCMhouston · April 15, 2012 10:13AM

I look at them, but just to get a relative ranking of grades, most of us here already know the overal rarity of what we collect. For example a few weeks (maybe months) ago 7Jaguars put up his personal rarity ranking of Victoria Pennies. I went and got the pops, along with one other I wanted to add to the list, and it followed along pretty well with what most already believed about both absolute and grade rarity of certain dates.

ajaan · April 15, 2012 10:17AM

WARNING: Obvious statement of the day.

With the opening of PCGS Paris there should be an increase in the population for some coins.

coinkat · April 15, 2012 10:43AM

For some coins, I think it means something- for others I am not so sure

Cap and Rays in 65 and higher- I still see these as tough so numbers likely have meaning

For Canada, I suggest there is meaning

I am less certain of Germany, England and France.

I look on occasion just to see if the numbers have gone up.

dizzlecc · April 15, 2012 11:32AM

I think so. Good example, I saw a tough to find coin in an AU grade. I was ready to place a bid, but prior I decided to check the pop report. I discovered the coin was not as rare as an old reference book stated. I decided to hold off for a higher grade that would fit the collection better even if I have to wait awhile.

I do look at top pops with a conservative mind and the notion that better examples may exist.

MrEureka · April 15, 2012 1:14PM

Populations that are greater than expected can be very educational. Populations lower than expected are probably more often misleading than educational.

mudskippie · April 15, 2012 2:49PM

I think pop means a lot. Having said that, one must also study the series to have a good grasp on true value.

theboz11 · April 15, 2012 6:43PM

With shipwrecks being discovered, Hoards popping up, and digs keep revealing in pastures,,,,, I thinks POPS have only temporary meaning and put little weight on them.

DeiGratia · April 16, 2012 1:36AM

for what I collect, Pops have very little relevance in price.
Eye Appeal / Grade is what drives the prices up.

coinpictures · April 16, 2012 2:34AM

I've never paid a whole lot of attention to Darkside pops at either service, simply because there are (comparatively) so many raw high-grade coins compared to Lightside.

The one place where the pops are handy is if you're trying to get a feel for how many PL or RD coins there might be across an entire series. Usually specific dates don't have a large enough sample size to be meaningful, but looking at all dates within a type or range can be helpful.

Bjorn · April 16, 2012 5:23AM

No, but I don't really collect based on population figures... I do, however, think it's importance is becoming much greater in certain highly-slabbed areas of world coins.

JamesMurray · April 16, 2012 5:28AM

"Also fact that many Europeans do not slab eliminates adequate comps"

I think that more than anything renders pops next to useless.

WorldTypeSet · April 16, 2012 11:53AM

No.

A coin is no less appealing if it has some higher graded brothers.

Gazza · April 16, 2012 9:14PM

I find pops totally useless when multiple types exist for a given coin. A case in point is the UK 1935 Crown, there are three different proofs and the TPGs don't distinguish between them, although will subdivide by amounts of cameo which it totally unknown here in the UK, just splitting hairs. The pattern had a mintage of 2500, the other two less than 10 each but are all listed as proof.

DoubleEagle59 · April 16, 2012 11:31PM

<< For Canadian coins the PCGS+NGC pops definitely have an effect on values for most series/coins. >>

For Canadians who collect Canadian coins, PCGS and NGC pops have zero influence on value (only ICCS pops do).

For Americans who collect Canadian coins, then I agree with the first statement.

giorgio11 · April 17, 2012 1:08AM

<< For Canadian coins the PCGS+NGC pops definitely have an effect on values for most series/coins. >>

For Canadian coins I do try to look at the pops and buy one that has fewer graded on the upside than on the downside, thus I have less chance of having/wanting to upgrade later on. But no I do not use them as anything more than a general guide given the reluctance of many outside-U.S. collectors to slab (or given their propensity toward ICCS in the case of Canada specifically).

TwoKopeiki · April 17, 2012 2:59AM

<< Populations that are greater than expected can be very educational. Populations lower than expected are probably more often misleading than educational. >>

I agree with Andy's statement. A few times, while looking through some pop reports, I noticed an unusually larget number of coins slabbed that contradicted some of my reference materials. Additional digging discovered that a less known hoard was responsible. I was able to find one of the coins for sale and look at the entire NGC order that revealed a few dozen examples of this hoard on a single order. Made a note of this interesting bit of info and moved on.

WWW · April 17, 2012 9:08AM

I use them as another reference piece and they are pretty handy for looking up coin numbers.
And it is mildly enjoyable to make a pop 1/0 for a new coin. A fairly easy task for some series, I admit, but still fun.

bidask · April 18, 2012 11:56AM

<< I use them as another reference piece and they are pretty handy for looking up coin numbers.
And it is mildly enjoyable to make a pop 1/0 for a new coin. A fairly easy task for some series, I admit, but still fun. >>

I agree, and I also think there are some coins or coin types/grades that you just do not see very often offered for sale and those are the coins I do pay attention to the pops when they are offered.

melvin289 · April 18, 2012 1:33PM

It helps to know that the coin I am looking for slabbed only has 7 coins graded in the grade I am seeking. On with the search.

Ron

marcmoish · April 18, 2012 10:30PM

Ron always assume in the 7 there may very well be crack outs and resubmitted back at same grades - that 7 may very well be 4 pcs or less.

I know that as fact at pcgs/ngc within my area of interest (Palestine Mandate series)...

pmac · April 19, 2012 5:37AM

<< WARNING: Obvious statement of the day.

With the opening of PCGS Paris there should be an increase in the population for some coins. >>

Is there a way to find out how well PCGS is doing in Europe? A previous reply alluded to the fact many Europeans do not have their coins graded. Has the appearance of PCGS started to make TPGs become relavent?

RobP · April 19, 2012 8:00AM

<< 

<< WARNING: Obvious statement of the day.

With the opening of PCGS Paris there should be an increase in the population for some coins. >>

Is there a way to find out how well PCGS is doing in Europe? A previous reply alluded to the fact many Europeans do not have their coins graded. Has the appearance of PCGS started to make TPGs become relavent? >>

Nope

melvin289 · April 19, 2012 2:23PM

<< Ron always assume in the 7 there may very well be crack outs and resubmitted back at same grades - that 7 may very well be 4 pcs or less.

I know that as fact at pcgs/ngc within my area of interest (Palestine Mandate series)... >>

Moshe,

I did manage to pick up this coin as an NGC MS-65. I am hoping it will cross over into the same grade. I talked to a dealer I have done business with for years and they are willing to submit the coin for me with another coin I am going to send them with a problem that has developed. The problem coin has a spot of vertigris on it and sending it in hopefully to be saved. I have owned the problem coin for over 15 years and I don't think anyone is to blame for it. Just clearing this matter up for clarity.

Ron

melvin289 · April 19, 2012 2:40PM

<< Ron always assume in the 7 there may very well be crack outs and resubmitted back at same grades - that 7 may very well be 4 pcs or less.

I know that as fact at pcgs/ngc within my area of interest (Palestine Mandate series)... >>

Moshe,

I did manage to find this coin in NGC skin in MS-65. I hope it will cross to PCGS in the same grade.

Ron

Do you believe pops mean anything when it comes to the darkside?

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