Taler grading help - urgent.

Zohar

A foreign seller offered this one up claiming this is a mint state original coin. Definitely strong reverse with nominal wear on obverse. Original skin. I dont claim to be a professional grader whatseover and work off eye appeal.

Technically, what would you place this piece at grade wise??

DeiGratia

Im no pro, but it looks AU55 to me.
I can't tell if there are any luster.
the coin looks flat.
I dont like the break in the dark and light spots on the obverse, it makes me think it was darkly toned black and cleaned.

The reverse I like more than the Obverse. The reverse looks like it was cleaned long ago and is now retoning.

EVillageProwler

Z - I don't like this as an UNC. Assuming it's unimpaired, it looks like a lightly circulated PL piece to me.

Zohar

Decision made not to pursue. Thanks guys.

EVP - have that Hogmouth 65 image handy as reference

JCMhouston

I don't see that ever getting a mint state grade Z. These are normally so nicely struck (at least the ones we see from your collection), that the flat spots ont he hair and the reverse design definatly looks like wear. I agree with around AU55+- depending on how good the luster is.

marcmoish

Z really looks AU55 maybe AU58.



edited to add; he's wrong - its not MS - there is def wear on both obv and rev.

marcmoish

just read the thread well didn't realize you made the decision already glad you said no...I saw only grading help for Z - urgent ! YIKES!
.....the comments here are a breeze and fresh air indeed - thank goodness to read raw facts better than hype terms and wishful thinking

Zohar

Here is a double taler I bought years ago. Dealer still insists this is a 62. I agree as I have seen similar pieces graded as such. The luster is there as are details. May try and send in to regrade.

DeiGratia

Dang that double Taler is Niceeeee

Zohar

Mintage reported at 834.

coinkat

The high points on these sometimes are not fully struck up- This looks more like cabinet friction. I would tend not to give it any benefit of the doubt based on the image. One needs to see this one in hand as the fields become critical in the determination. There is something that just may not be right with the fields- evp commented it has the look of a PL- I am skeptical as it may have been enhanced years ago

marcmoish

Zohar that double T you have here is a truly remarkable example in terms of eye appeal - the details on BOTH sides are equally fantastic .. I like it a lot.

There is def some light old wear on high points etc. incl cheek areas...I see a way upper end AU58 as is - would NOT be bothered per se to see it in a MS62 holder - maybe belongs in a MS61 - just unsure if I would crack it or regrade it - I guess thats a personal choice.

If and when you ever sold it - most would see it - in hand or via scans and determine it is a way high end piece and bid accordingly - jmho - similar to the 1/2 T that I got from you - I can easily crack it and get a grade higher for sure but would rather have it in an undergraded holder...weird? maybe!

Zohar

Maybe submit (without cracking out) to regrade?

marcmoish

without cracking it out I'd do that if you really want/need/have urge to do somethin

As long as the submittal doesn't jeopardize the status you have now - i.e. an obviously superior coin in an older AU58 holder period!

dizzlecc

World coin can be tough between au58 and ms62. Prefer to stick with eye appeal and not get too picky.

I like the luster on the 2T.

ajaan

Something looks strange to me on the first taler. Maybe it's only the image but I'm not 100% sure that's authentic.

worldcoinguy

I think it is legit. I think the flat strike and possible wear on obverse high points would put it in the AU-58 range.

Zohar threw this fish back in the numismatic sea so the rest of us still have a shot at it.

pmac

Zohar, you guys are the expert on world coins. Us US coin collectors have been able to slip some 58 coins past the graders for MS grades, but the Darkside should strive to remain true to the hobby. Keep it as is.