Can anyone explain this auction?

paleocards · April 3, 2012 3:09AM

April Fool's joke? Two bidders with deeper pockets than sense? VCP's gotta be ~$130 for this card in 8...

1963 Topps #3 NL HR Leaders PSA 8

Dboneesq · April 3, 2012 3:22AM

Looks crazy. And it's not like one hasn't been sold in years:

4/1/12 eBay $1,124.99
3/29/12 eBay $153.50
3/20/12 eBay $174.49
12/8/11 eBay $139.16
10/31/11 eBay $102.00
2/15/11 eBay $68.00
11/17/10 eBay $67.00
11/15/10 eBay $68.75
10/6/10 eBay $37.00
8/19/10 eBay $78.77
7/23/10 eBay $74.47

addicted2ebay · April 3, 2012 3:26AM

All I can think of is that two idiot's at the exact same time thought they were bidding on a 9.

JoeBanzai · April 3, 2012 3:48AM

Nice looking card. Surprised there is no picture of the backand they still bid that high. Prolly hoping to crack and re-sub.

Will the high bidders on this card please look at this one to go with it?

AL Version

Joe

P.S. just ignore the poor back centering!

jmmiller777 · April 3, 2012 4:20AM

Good stuff, I have got to start selling my vintage stuff. The fun I would recieve would be worth it. I could also buy my vacation home anywhere I wanted.

scooter729 · April 3, 2012 4:40AM

Can someone explain the logic of why a legit bidder (and it appears the underbidder is legit) would bid just shy of milestone amounts? If you’re bidding to win something, wouldn’t you want to bid just OVER what you think might be the amount another person is bidding? So you would bid $100.03 or $501.01 or something like that, rather than $99.99 or $499.99.

Bidding just short of the milestone amounts usually would make me think the bidder is a shiller, but I see this happen many times by what appears to be legit bidders.

lifeshouldbefun · April 3, 2012 4:49AM

I suspect it may be alcohol related

cards651 · April 3, 2012 5:55AM

Interesting puzzle. This is not a clean auction as shown by the VCP prices posted here. My two cents -

1. After reading comments and looking at auction, I was not surprised to see that the lower feedback ID 'won'. My most likely scenario is that it is the same person with multiple ID's that has a beef with the seller (wcsports1). Seller will not get paid and will have to go through the hassle of getting eBay fees back from eBay. Wouldn't fees on this auction be over $100? He'll have to file a non-bidder claim and the bidder will lose an eBay ID with feedback of about 200. Probably not a big deal to the bidder.

2. Highly unlikely but perhaps buyer and seller are trying to manipulate VCP average? I know VCP shows high and low but some only look at the average. I think this is very unlikely but perhaps wcsports1 could comment. I think this person is a board member.

3. Low eBay ID is a shill trying to bid up the card to force others to pay more. I have heard of this happening but the amounts here are so out of the ballpark that it does not make sense.

4. As lifeshouldbefun notes, you can never rule out alcohol.

I would bet $20 that Option 1 is what happened. Any other guesses? Thanks for the link to that auction. It's always amazing to see some of the crazy stuff that goes on. - Kevin

BobbyVCP · April 3, 2012 6:03AM

Saw this result as well and could not comprehend it but then again it is par for the course because we do get a lot of "What the hell is the buyer thinking" sales. The good thing is there is multiple sales of this item with in the past year so this high price will be tossed in figuring the averages. Right now it shows an averaged price of $155.72

BobbyVCP · April 3, 2012 6:04AM

Also if you see proof that the sale did not go through let me know and I will delete it.

Thanks

bbuckner22 · April 3, 2012 6:17AM

61% bid history with that seller by the buyer. Something smells a wee bit fishy there...

cards651 · April 3, 2012 6:23AM

<< 61% bid history with that seller by the buyer. Something smells a wee bit fishy there... >>

Good work bbuckner22. But why would the apparent clean bidder go so ridiculously high on his bid? He had to know that he risked losing big. Perhaps this is where the alcohol comes in.

bbuckner22 · April 3, 2012 7:02AM

Don't drink and bid

Dpeck100 · April 3, 2012 7:55AM

I can explain this auction.

Wcsports1 has played a huge role in helping me build my collection. I have purchased many cards from this seller and have had nothing but first class service.

I contacted him to see his side of the story. The card was paid for 15 seconds after the auction ended. A collector with deep pockets who collects Willie Mays.

Not every buyer lives and dies by VCP. They may have seen something in the card they liked or just said the hell with it I want it.

Before you accuse a seller with a tremendous track record of using shill bidders make sure you have your facts straight.

I trusted this seller with thousands of dollars of Hulk Hogan cards for four months while we waited to get them signed. He has mailed me cards before he received payment via check.

There is a reason this seller has so many feedback and so many repeat buyers. Excellent cards, tremendous service and a class act to deal with.

Sean1125 · April 3, 2012 8:29AM

Nice post Dpeck

miconelegacy · April 3, 2012 8:32AM

Yes good post Dpeck about the seller, but the winner is just an idiot IMO. Deep pockets or not.

cards651 · April 3, 2012 8:37AM

Sorry Dpeck100, I'm not buying it. Your post accounts for one idiot paying over $1,000 and six times the VCP price for a fairly attainable card. We are looking for two idiots that would do this. How do you explain the second bidder? Also, how does a big Willie Mays collector dropping $1,200 on a card end up with a 200 and something in eBay feedback? Did wcsports1 say how this collector with deep pockets felt about paying six times the average? Was alcohol a factor as others have noted? There are a lot of unanswered questions on this auction. Perhaps wcsports1 can add some comments. - Kevin

miconelegacy · April 3, 2012 8:51AM

The last prices for a PSA 9

Latest Auction Prices for: PSA 9 - Average Price: $1,136.63
Listing Type: Show:
Date Auction Link Seller Buyer Bids Price Extra
11/14/11 eBay Auction | Image bdodgecards h***4 16 $1,136.63
10/7/09 Mile High Image 9 $1,012.85
5/7/09 eBay Image cardmrchnt6ta4 r***d 14 $1,136.00
3/26/09 Mile High Image 12 $1,798.93
10/3/08 eBay Image yorktownsc ambianceark 8 $968.01
5/18/08 Memory Lane Image 15 $2,031.57
2/19/08 eBay south-florida-heat calvinish 27 $1,250.00
10/26/06 Andy Madec $3,883.55

addicted2ebay · April 3, 2012 8:55AM

I find it hard to believe that anyone even if they do not use VCP would drop that kind of cash on that card. You think that they would know about completed ebay sales right? There are two other 8's of the same card that sold for under $200 in the last 10 days and the SMR is $80.

Maybe if it was a rare RC or low pop high grade it can go 10x VCP but for this card?

miconelegacy · April 3, 2012 8:58AM

Even if they thought this card would bump to an 8.5 or 9, it's still a terrible buy.

They had to have been drinking, on drugs, or trying to drive the prices up...

WalterSobchak · April 3, 2012 9:15AM

The buyer only paid $225 per hall-of-famer. When you break it down that way it doesn't look quite so bad, does it?

miconelegacy · April 3, 2012 9:19AM

<< The buyer only paid $225 per hall-of-famer. When you break it down that way it doesn't look quite so bad, does it? >>

That's Awesome!!

Funniest shiznit of the day! LMFAO!!!

cards651 · April 3, 2012 9:19AM

<< Even if they thought this card would bump to an 8.5 or 9, it's still a terrible buy.

They had to have been drinking, on drugs, or trying to drive the prices up... >>

'They' is the difficult part to explain. There needed to be two of these people making the exact same stupid decisions. Does not seem likely.

trex · April 3, 2012 10:31AM

Hmmmm, goes right along with if you won the lottery would you buy a Honus Wagner card. Not one person that answered yes said how much they would pay for it. Now did they.

miconelegacy · April 3, 2012 10:55AM

Listen obviously the buyers, bidders, scammers, etc are a bunch of tools. Good for them for spending 5 times or more what the card is worth. Dpeck glad the seller made good money on the deal, but the buyers well, they might need some focus factor.....

cards651 · April 3, 2012 11:56AM

All of this back and forth without any resolution got me to re-read the thread. These comments from scooter729 really stand out:

<< Can someone explain the logic of why a legit bidder (and it appears the underbidder is legit) would bid just shy of milestone amounts? If you’re bidding to win something, wouldn’t you want to bid just OVER what you think might be the amount another person is bidding? So you would bid $100.03 or $501.01 or something like that, rather than $99.99 or $499.99.

Bidding just short of the milestone amounts usually would make me think the bidder is a shiller, but I see this happen many times by what appears to be legit bidders. >>

PowderedH2O · April 3, 2012 12:09PM

I have on a couple of occasions accidentally put in a ridiculous bid. I meant to put $100, but put in $1000. Fortunately, I didn't get bid up. Is it possible two guys made the same mistake on the same auction?

cards651 · April 3, 2012 12:26PM

PowderedH2O - Anything is possible, of course. Below is the actual bidding. Does this bidding look like the mistake that you made?

Member Id: l***k ( 242) US $1,124.99 Apr-01-12 19:13:04 PDT

Member Id: 6***7 ( 1925) US $1,099.99 Apr-01-12 18:40:01 PDT

Member Id: l***k ( 242) US $1,050.00 Apr-01-12 19:12:36 PDT

Member Id: l***k ( 242) US $930.00 Apr-01-12 19:12:05 PDT

Member Id: l***k ( 242) US $758.00 Mar-30-12 17:36:56 PDT

Member Id: l***k ( 242) US $563.00 Mar-29-12 19:51:03 PDT

Member Id: 6***7 ( 1925) US $499.99 Mar-29-12 19:43:44 PDT

Member Id: l***k ( 242) US $480.00 Mar-29-12 19:49:59 PDT

Member Id: l***k ( 242) US $374.00 Mar-29-12 19:38:25 PDT

Member Id: 6***7 ( 1925) US $312.99 Mar-26-12 19:23:06 PDT

Member Id: l***k ( 242) US $247.00 Mar-29-12 19:37:51 PDT

Member Id: 6***7 ( 1925) US $177.99 Mar-26-12 07:11:37 PDT

Member Id: a***i ( 895) US $150.00 Mar-26-12 19:07:21 PDT

Member Id: a***i ( 895) US $122.00 Mar-26-12 18:20:27 PDT

Member Id: l***m ( 715) US $109.00 Mar-26-12 18:06:40 PDT

Member Id: r***1 ( 2694) US $98.69 Mar-26-12 09:08:21 PDT

Member Id: r***1 ( 2694) US $88.69 Mar-26-12 09:08:15 PDT

Member Id: r***1 ( 2694) US $78.69 Mar-26-12 09:08:10 PDT

Member Id: r***1 ( 2694) US $68.69 Mar-26-12 09:08:04 PDT

Member Id: r***1 ( 2694) US $58.69 Mar-26-12 09:07:58 PDT

Member Id: r***1 ( 2694) US $48.69 Mar-26-12 09:07:52 PDT

Member Id: r***1 ( 2694) US $38.69 Mar-26-12 09:07:44 PDT

Member Id: r***1 ( 2694) US $31.69 Mar-26-12 04:59:27 PDT

Starting Price US $9.99
Mar-25-12 19:18:02 PD

Dpeck100 · April 3, 2012 12:40PM

First of all it is not the seller responsibility to figure out why two people bid so aggressively on his auction.

He is not required to send them an email and inform them that they are paying 6 times the VCP average. He also does not have to ask them if they were drinking that night either.

There are plenty of cards that sell at prices that are in some peoples opinion out of line. I routinely hear on this board how top consignors cards generally sell above VCP and in many cases way above.

This seller is a 5 star seller and that may have led to the buyer being willing to bid more.

I have bid on cards when drinking many times and ego can play a huge role in you being willing to go higher. Heck that can happen sober.

The fact the guys feedback is not super high means nothing. There is a buyer who has come into the wrestling card market with similar feedback and he is a tremendous buyer and pays immediately and is willing to go to battle if that is what it takes.

It is clear that the winner of this auction could have most likely purchased the card for less but in no way is that the sellers fault. If he was having someone shill his auction he would have never instructed them to keep bidding that high and risk the sale at such an elevated level.

I think making such serious accusations should be thought about more before they are made.

cardbender · April 3, 2012 1:10PM

Anyway you slice it, this is an interesting thread.

PowderedH2O · April 3, 2012 1:16PM

PowderedH2O - Anything is possible, of course. Below is the actual bidding. Does this bidding look like the mistake that you made?

lol...nope. That's on purpose bidding there.

scooter729 · April 3, 2012 10:18PM

<< All of this back and forth without any resolution got me to re-read the thread. These comments from scooter729 really stand out:

<< Can someone explain the logic of why a legit bidder (and it appears the underbidder is legit) would bid just shy of milestone amounts? If you’re bidding to win something, wouldn’t you want to bid just OVER what you think might be the amount another person is bidding? So you would bid $100.03 or $501.01 or something like that, rather than $99.99 or $499.99.

Bidding just short of the milestone amounts usually would make me think the bidder is a shiller, but I see this happen many times by what appears to be legit bidders. >>

>>

Thanks cards651 for bringing this up again - I would love to hear anyone's thoughts as to why people would bid at levels like are shown - $99.99, $499.99, etc. - without it being a shill bid.

I'm not stating it's definitely a shill - heck, I've had people place bids like that on auctions I've run, and it makes me nervous that I'll be accused of shilling. I just don't understand the logic of why someone would bid that way, when knowing that increasing your bid by a few pennies would increase the odds of winning by a great deal....

Can anyone explain this auction?

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