This man should be in the Hall Of Fame.

MantleMarisFordBerra

For Real.

prthd

+1

arex

I agree. What really is the difference between his stats and Kirby's?

DavidPuddy

OMG the empty seats!

MantleMarisFordBerra

<< <i>OMG the empty seats! >>



I won't lie, I noticed the same thing! And if you remember the Sports Illustrated cover from a few years back with Mantle & Maris on the cover, the empty seats made it look like the Marlins were playing. This one:

digicat

The thing that struck me about the video is how tame the "walk-off" celebrations were back then. Watch any walk-off win now, and you'd think that the team won the World Series!

PeteZaria

Hard to believe, but, back then, the most expensive seat in the stadium was less than $12. In 2009, it was $2,500+.

It's funny how the graphic near the end of the video shows that the Yankees lost.

firstbase23

I agree, he should be in the Hall.

Matt

PowderedH2O

Also, in the mind of the voters, I think they probably felt Kirby had more left in the tank. Literally, until the last pitch of his career, he was essentially no worse than he had been five years earlier. Had he not had the unfortunate end to his career, I don't think many people would question whether he would have gotten well over 3000 hits. Mattingly was done. Mattingly for the last six years of his career was an average offensive baseball player. For Mattingly's last six seasons his average season was .286 with 9.7 HR's, 63.7 RBI's, and a 103.3 OPS+. To me, that's an average ball player. Actually, for a first baseman, those numbers kinda suck.

Essentially, Mattingly's career comes down to a six year stretch in which he was one of the best players in the game for four of those seasons, and a very good player for two of them. There are a number of guys with better careers that aren't in the HOF. George Foster and Dave Parker are a couple of them. Lately, Jim Rice has kinda been the whipping boy of HOF selections. If you put Mattingly's numbers side by side with Rice's numbers and just compare them, you'll see that Rice's numbers are better. Obviously, Rice was not a Gold Glover, but Rice didn't play first base either. My point is, if I can compare Don Mattingly to a guy that is considered to be the absolute periphery of modern HOF voter selections, and his numbers are less than that guy, Mattingly has no chance of ever getting in. Well, not unless they do some sort of Frankie Frisch deal and he has a lot of friends on the Vets Committee. Or he gets in as a manager.

The clip shown by the OP was of Don Mattingly in his prime. During the mid to late 80's, Mattingly was a HOF calibre player. Unfortunately, the 80's ended. Sadly, the back problems and the wear and tear of the game took their toll on Donnie Baseball, and he was just a shell of himself in the 90's. I like Mattingly. But a HOFer, he is not.

soundgard

<< <i>Also, in the mind of the voters, I think they probably felt Kirby had more left in the tank. Literally, until the last pitch of his career, he was essentially no worse than he had been five years earlier. Had he not had the unfortunate end to his career, I don't think many people would question whether he would have gotten well over 3000 hits. Mattingly was done. Mattingly for the last six years of his career was an average offensive baseball player. For Mattingly's last six seasons his average season was .286 with 9.7 HR's, 63.7 RBI's, and a 103.3 OPS+. To me, that's an average ball player. Actually, for a first baseman, those numbers kinda suck.

Essentially, Mattingly's career comes down to a six year stretch in which he was one of the best players in the game for four of those seasons, and a very good player for two of them. There are a number of guys with better careers that aren't in the HOF. George Foster and Dave Parker are a couple of them. Lately, Jim Rice has kinda been the whipping boy of HOF selections. If you put Mattingly's numbers side by side with Rice's numbers and just compare them, you'll see that Rice's numbers are better. Obviously, Rice was not a Gold Glover, but Rice didn't play first base either. My point is, if I can compare Don Mattingly to a guy that is considered to be the absolute periphery of modern HOF voter selections, and his numbers are less than that guy, Mattingly has no chance of ever getting in. Well, not unless they do some sort of Frankie Frisch deal and he has a lot of friends on the Vets Committee. Or he gets in as a manager.

The clip shown by the OP was of Don Mattingly in his prime. During the mid to late 80's, Mattingly was a HOF calibre player. Unfortunately, the 80's ended. Sadly, the back problems and the wear and tear of the game took their toll on Donnie Baseball, and he was just a shell of himself in the 90's. I like Mattingly. But a HOFer, he is not. >>



Agreed.

Estil

<< <i>I agree. What really is the difference between his stats and Kirby's? >>



Kirby won two championships in five years for a team that's about as small market as they get. Nuff said.

Tabe

<< <i>I agree. What really is the difference between his stats and Kirby's? >>


Besides that Kirby's never dropped off and that he played a defensive that was far more valuable?

Kirby retired an elite player playing CF. Mattingly played 6 years - half his career - as an average-at-best 1B. Simply put, his peak years weren't good enough to get the Koufax treatment and there weren't enough of them for him to get the regular HOF treatment.

Tabe

NVbaseball

As already mentioned, Puckett has a big advantage in stats in a few areas: defense and postseason. Mattingly had that huge six-year peak, but little else. Puckett's peak wasn't as high, but a full 10 years

Comparing players to the lower Hall-of-Fame selections is a horrible argument. That is saying that poor or questionable choices from the past must be repeated rather than corrected

Jeff Bagwell was a far better player and didn't make the Hall-of-Fame, so absolutely no way Mattingly should be seen as exceeding Hall-of-Fame standards

Though I do agree that the New York firstbaseman from the 80s wouldn't be a bad choice for the Hall-of-Fame. Except that Keith Hernandez was a drug user and we would never be able to win the war on drugs if we let them in the Baseball Hall-of-Fame

(whether we agree with it or not, the postseason and drugs also explains why Lou Brock makes the Hall-of-Fame while Tim Raines does not)

Bagwell passed drug tests

PowderedH2O

Comparing players to the lower Hall-of-Fame selections is a horrible argument.

In some ways yes, and in others no. If Mattingly was better than Rice, then yes, it would not be a fair comparison, because that would be justifying Mattingly as a HOFer because he is better than a low rung selection. But, my argument is that Mattingly's career was not as good as Rice's. Meaning, he is not as good as a guy who got in on the 15th ballot, who played many of the same years in the same division. If Rice got in on the last shot, then Mattingly essentially will never get voted in. He has three more shots. He got 17% last time. He will likely never reach 40%.

estang

This wasn't the first & only time this happened to Ron Davis

NVbaseball

If there are 20 guys better than Rice not in the Hall-of-Fame, that means while being better than some who were poor choices, it also means he might not be as good as 19 who aren't in. I will never accept that as a reasonable argument

PowderedH2O

OK. That is written in a way that is beyond my English comprehension, so you win.

RoarIn84

<< <i>This wasn't the first & only time this happened to Ron Davis >>



I have this game on dvd, and during the game they state how he blew a game like this earlier in the same week!!! A very fun game to watch, no matter if you like the Yankees or not!!

Darin

Just picture a Blue Jays or Mariners uniform on him(actually anything other than a Yankee uniform) and this discussion will stop coming up.

Yankees001

So, your arguemnt is he hit a homerun? OK, Everyone who has ever hit a homerun goes in the Hall of Fame. I'm OK with that, the Hall of Fame is already a JOKE.

Greg Jefferies is in, now his rookies with will be .10.

Dave

coinkat

Maybe the Hall needs to be closed... seriously