The HOF Rookies: Top 50 and Top 100 All-Time Boxing RC Set Registry

miklia

Here is the work-in-progress 'master' list of boxing HOF / heavyweight champion / notable rookies that we're working to edit with an eye on a Boxing HOF player registry. Comments and suggestions welcome!

1887 A&G N28 John L. Sullivan
1887 N174 Old Judge Bob Fitzsimmons
1890 Mayo James Corbett
1890 Mayo Young Griffo
1901 Ogden's Cigarettes Jim Jeffries
1908 Ogden's Cigarettes Tommy Burns
1908 Ogden's Cigarettes Joe Gans
1908 Red Sun Stanley Ketchel
1909 American Caramel Marvin Hart
1909 Ogden's Cigarettes Jack Johnson
1909 Ogden's Cigarettes Sam Langford
1912 Cohen Weenen Georges Carpentier
1912 Cohen Weenen Joe Jeanette
1915 Ogden's Cigarettes Jess Willard
1915 Ogden's Jimmy Wilde
1920 W529 Jack Dempsey
1921 W551 Mickey Walker
1922 Sporting Champions Benny Leonard
1923 W580 Gene Tunney
1927 Greiling Cigarettes Jack Sharkey
1927 Greiling Cigarettes Max Schmeling
1928 W513 Tony Canzoneri
1929 Godfrey Philips Primo Carnera
1933 Sport Kings Max Baer
1935 Pattreioux Sporting Events and Stars James Braddock
1935 Pattreioux Sporting Events and Stars Joe Louis
1935 United Tobacco John Henry Lewis
1938 FC Cartledge Henry Armstrong
1947 D. Cummings and Son Sugar Ray Robinson
1947 D. Cummings and Son Jersey Joe Walcott
1947 D. Cummings and Son Willie Pep
1948 Leaf Jake La Motta
1948 Leaf Marcel Cerdan
1948-9 Futbol Po-Po / Boxeadores Disc Archie Moore
1951 Topps Ringside Ezzard Charles
1951 Topps Ringside Rocky Marciano
1958 DC Thompson Floyd Patterson
1958 Heinerle Ingemar Johansson
1960 Hemmets Journal Muhammed Ali
1966 Panini Sonny Liston
1967 Panini Joe Fraizer
1973 Panini George Foreman
1973 Panini Roberto Duran
1976 Panini Leon Spinks
1977-79 Sportscaster Sugar Ray Leonard
1981 Panini Marvin Hagler
1982 Panini Larry Holmes
1986 Panini Mike Tyson
1986 Browns Boxing Evander Holyfield
1986 Browns Boxing Pernell Whitaker

As of now, there's a nice variation to this list, trying not to overweight too many issues out there.

(edited to adjust as suggestions come in)

halosfan

Sure .. .why not

gregmo32

I think it would be great, and it would liven up the debate about which issues are the "True RC" of certain boxers.

miklia

Great - let's turn this thread into a 'master list' that we can work on with an eventual offering suggestion to PSA. Let's keep any and all suggestions open, and I'll start with RCs of heavyweight fighters, eliminating some of the more recent smaller time guys:

(edited to move list up to top post)

gregmo32

I like the 1966 Panini Muhammad Ali as the true RC with the best overall pedigree, compared to those other one-and-done type issues.

miklia

Added - I think Ali will easily be the most spirited debate on this list. Doesn't PSA weight how many of a particular card have been graded in making the 'final' decision as well?

miklia

Edit and update thanks to David at Boxing Card Digest!

Big80s

Great thread!

I like the '65 Lampo for Ali. I also prefer the 1926 Lamber & Butler for Gene Tunney.

NickM

I have no idea if he ever had a card issued before Sportscaster, but you need Archie Moore in this set.

Nick

miklia

Thanks Nick! It looks like there's a few Swedish issues out there, and a 67 Panini, but I put in the exhibit for now.

miklia

bump for additions and corrects.

And question of the day - are the Exhibits 'cards'? Should they be included here?

gregmo32

I have never understood why PSA grades baseball Exhibits but not boxing or wrestling. Can anyone shed some light on this? I understand that there were counterfeits made for some of the issues. Is that the only reason?

miklia

I've been emailing them on this issue - I've asked, but can't get an explanation out of them either....

PowderedH2O

They won't grade football exhibits either.

miklia

one last bump before list goes to PSA. we're up to exactly 50 now!

miklia

a few additions to start us off, many of which will hopefully be on the final list! Sorry for them being blurry - I have a crap scanner...

Big80s

Love the scans! Let's keep this thread rocking!

nonpareil

I'm definitely interested in helping with this registry set in any way that I can. Will there be more than one "rookie" card considered for a boxer and will there be an option to "swap out" a card on the registry (after it has been created) if an earlier released card is found? Also, which HOF roster is being used, IBHOF or WBHOF? I ask because Primo Carnera isn't in the IBHOF.

miklia

bumped for a couple of edits and a brief update to say that we are now 'trial live' on the Set Registry! Barring any last minute finds (please let me know if you have any!), this should be just about the final list. The weighting is also incorrect at the moment, but should be fixed shortly. There's some more info near the end of this thread as well. Now let's see who can beat RAS!

miklia

and now update to a top 100 List! (cross posted at net54)

Hi all, it's with sincere thanks that I give gratitude to everyone with their help on this top 50 list, and now I'm having thoughts on how to expand to a new top 100 boxing HOF RC list that includes the previously selected cards as well as other HOFers and iconic boxers. As before, I compiled a tentative 'next 50' list by referencing:

Bert Sugar's 100 greatest boxers of all time
Ring Magazine's Top 80 boxers of the Past 80 Years
Sports Illustrated top 50
Associated Press Fighters of the Century (5 member panel, Dec 1999)
IBHOF inductees

Any boxer on all 5 of the above lists (and not in the previous top 50 all time RC list already compiled) was included below, with the exception of boxers that as far as I could see had no cards anywhere near their playing days (f.ex Eder Jofre). I also tried to include a few more of the modern boxers to make the list a bit more contemporary. The highest ranking players on at least 3 or 4 of the 'top' lists were then cross referenced with the IBHOF list where applicable, bringing me to 50 names. Cards were the earliest true RC that I could find (with massive thanks to Alan's initial efforts due, of course), with the exception of a couple of cases where only one card is known to exist, which more or less makes it uncollectible as a set/list imho:

1886 N167 Old Judge Jem Carney
1886 N167 Old Judge Jack McAuliffe
1887 N184 Jack Dempsey (also N174 Old Judge, A&G N28)
1890 Mayo Barbados Joe Walcott
1901 Ogdens Terry McGovern
1901 Ogdens Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
1902 Ogdens George Dixon
1908 Ogdens Jim Driscoll
1908 Ogdens Abe Attell
1909 E75 American Caramel Battling Nelson
1910 T218 Mecca Young Corbett
1915 Cope Brothers Ted 'Kid' Lewis
1920 W529 Johnee Dundee
1920 W529 Jack Britton
1921 W551 Harry Greb
1921 W551 Pancho Villa
1926 Spalding Champions Tiger Flowers
1928 Greiling Panama Al Brown
1928/29 La Morena/Tab de Ind los Angola Kid Chocolate
1928/29 La Morena/Tab de Ind los Angola Tommy Loughran
1928/29 La Morena/Tab de Ind los Angola Jimmy McLarnin
1935 United Tobacco Barney Ross (before 41 release?)
1940 Spanish Boxing Serie A Billy Conn
1947 Cummings Rocky Graziano
1947 Cummings Ike Williams
1947 Cummings Manuel Ortiz
1951 Ringside Sandy Saddler
1951 Ringside Kid Gavilan
1966 Panini Dick Tiger
1966 Panini Fighting Harada
1967 Panini Emile Griffith
1967 Figuritas Sport Pascualito (Pascual) Perez
1969 Panini Bob Foster
1969 Panini Jose Napoles
1970 Panini Ruben Olivares
1972 Figuritas Starostra Carlos Monzon
1982 Panini Thomas Hearns
1982 Panini Wifred Benitez
1982 Panini Salvador Sanchez
1987 Panini Julio Cesar Chavez
1991 Kayo Roy Jones Jr
1991 Kayo Alexis Arguello
1991 Ringlords Lennox Lewis
1992 Impel Oscar de la Hoya
1996 Ringside Marco Antonio Barrera
1997 Browns Floyd Mayweather Jr.
1998 Japan World Boxing Khaosai Galaxy
1999 Japan World Boxing Manny Pacquiao
1999 Browns Bernard Hopkins
2001 Rookie Review Wladimir Klitschko and Vitaly Klitschko

other potential boxers for inclusion that i could not find cards for or are otherwise perhaps borderline 'top 100' cases, with my suggested strongest candidates in bold for those I could find cards for:

Eder Jofre (no cards?, 1991 AW)
Charley Burley (no cards?)
Aaron Pryor (nothing before 2008?)
Joe Brown (no cards? 1998 Futera Platinum boxing legends)
Miguel Canto (no cards?)
Carmen Basilio (1991 Kayo, 1958 Rekord)
Nonito Donaire (no cards?)
Carlos Zarate (no cards?)
Jimmy Bivins (no cards?)
Peter Jackson (1888 N332 Hess)
Earnie Shavers (1991 AW)
Kostya Tszyu (1994 Browns)
Beau Jack (1948 Leaf)
Maxie Rosenbloom (1930 La Estrella)
Erik Morales (1997 Browns)
Felix Trinidad (1996 Ringlords)
Julian Jackson (1991 Ringlords)
Juan Manuel Marquez (2008 Topps Co-Signers)
Fidel LaBarba (1926 Spalding Champions)
Matthew Saad Muhammad (1982 Panini)

What do you guys think? I'd love to hear your thoughts both on who should / should not be included, and if there are any earlier issues of the players listed above to update this list accordingly. Thanks again, and I'm already looking forward to the debate and discussion.

ReggieCleveland

I'm on my cell phone so just looking at it quickly and off the top of my head....

Peter Jackson and Ezzard Charles should definitely be on the list.

Everyone you have for the 1930 La Estrella set has earlier cards: 1928/29 La Morena/Tab de Ind los Angola.

The 1935 UTC is, at the earliest, a 1941 release.

Pascual Perez and Carlos Monzon have earlier cards. Perez has many cards in the 1960s and I believe his earliest know is either 1958 or 59. Monzon has multiple issues from 1971.

The Perez set you reference is mislabeled by PSA. The set is 1967 Crack Campeones, not "Figuritas Sport."

Good luck getting any kind of consensus on what constitutes a "card."

miklia

Thanks Reggie, and noted appropriately. Ezzard's in the top 50 list, and I agree that Jackson should likely be in the top 100 too. Anyone you see that should be taken out?

on the issue of 'what's a card?' - yeah, while total consensus will be tough, especially for key boxers, I think that there is room for agreement for many of the cards listed here. but we'll see, hehe.

nonpareil

I really like this topic, and I applaud your efforts.

It's going to be a long time until this whole thing gets figured out. Don't forget to enjoy the ride!

Alan

smokeybandit

How about the 1969 Panini Jimmy Ellis #349 I suspect that is his Rookie ?

miwlvrn

<< <i>I have no idea if he ever had a card issued before Sportscaster, but you need Archie Moore in this set.

Nick >>



There is the 1975 Boxing News - Gallery of the Greats Archie Moore, but it is too large to fit in PSA holders.

miwlvrn

I noticed the 1967 Panini was listed for Joe Frazier in the OP. What about either one of the 1964 issues? They're not all that hard to find if you look in the right places.

Also, if you're still working on this, it might be worthwhile to email Ron and ask for his input wherever you have questions, as he has pretty much everything (he's not on the CU board here).

miklia

Hey guys,

Good to see this thread revived! A few of us have been working with PSA over the last year to update the set. It's been expanded to 100 boxers, but our efforts to fix 8 of the cards to earlier issues (for example moving the panini Frazier to the 1964 Bobbie Tokyo) were not accepted by existing registry members (voting ended in a tie). We'll keep trying, and are always looking for updated info!

miwlvrn

Question about the composition: What the heck is 1901 Ogden's Ltd. Pugilists & Wrestlers Jim Jeffries? I've never seen that set and I don't think exists; I've got cards from all sorts of Ogden's Ltd. sets from the turn of the century so I'm familiar with the various sets, but none are by that title? Since it is apparently a typo incorrectly using the title of the Ogden's set from 1908 & 1909, should that spot be taken by the 1901 Ogden's Ltd. Tabs General Interest Series A no. 84 James J. Jefferies (Jeffries) or the 1901 Ogden's Ltd. Tabs Heroes of the Ring NNO James J. Jefferies (Jeffries)?

miklia

It's the series A card that we're shooting for here - that's another of the 8 changes/clarifications we're working on.

miwlvrn

Thanks for the reply. Sounds good to me, I've got both so it doesn't matter to me which one you add now

What's your take on all the Dutch Gum Floyd Patterson cards that are said to predate 1958? I know the guy who works on the movie card web site (http://www.moviecard.com/valgum/valgum_ToC.html) does a lot of research before assigning years to a set, and that he has 1950's for the plain text "D" set without having determined for sure which year it was. I think this is a case where PSA should have done "1950's" on the flips and pop report rather than 1950. I do not think it was 1950 based on the other content from the set, but I do think it was earlier than 1958. The way you figure out issuance year is looking at as many of the cards as you can to determine what costume for that actor corresponds with what movie they were in, and then check release year for the movie. Sometimes there are a few that are a year or so off so you need to check multiple items. The easiest ones to go by are the ones with 2 people together, especially if those two actors only made one movie together.

miwlvrn

<< <i>Thanks for the reply. Sounds good to me, I've got both so it doesn't matter to me which one you add now

What's your take on all the Dutch Gum Floyd Patterson cards that are said to predate 1958? I know the guy who works on the movie card web site (http://www.moviecard.com/valgum/valgum_ToC.html) does a lot of research before assigning years to a set, and that he has 1950's for the plain text "D" set without having determined for sure which year it was. I think this is a case where PSA should have done "1950's" on the flips and pop report rather than 1950. I do not think it was 1950 based on the other content from the set, but I do think it was earlier than 1958. The way you figure out issuance year is looking at as many of the cards as you can to determine what costume for that actor corresponds with what movie they were in, and then check release year for the movie. Sometimes there are a few that are a year or so off so you need to check multiple items. The easiest ones to go by are the ones with 2 people together, especially if those two actors only made one movie together. >>



All that being said, I believe the "D"set was 1954 (possibly 1955 at the latest), so all the Floyd Patterson cards in it would still pre-date the 1958 on your composition.