Who Was The Best Hitter of the Vintage Era?

CollectorAtWork · February 28, 2012 8:49AM

This follows from my thread on Mickey Mantle ( Link ). OK, if you were the owner/GM of a major league baseball team (say the 2012 Pirates), and you could choose any hitter from the vintage era, who would it be? (e.g., Mantle, Clemente, Mays, Dimaggio, Williams, Aaron, or any other) The caveat is that you would have the advantage of hindsight, so the players career statistics arc would exactly follow how it did in history, and there would be no way you could change it. You would draft him as he was a rookie. For example, Williams would still take 3 years off to join the military in his prime, Mantle would still get a freak injury and have an alcohol problem, etc. You know it's going to happen, and you can't change it. Who would you pick? I think I would pick Williams with Mays a close second.

vettfanatic · February 28, 2012 8:53AM

Muhammed Ali

Cokin75 · February 28, 2012 8:54AM

Williams, hands down.

Probstein123 · February 28, 2012 8:57AM

Babe Ruth

Downtown1974 · February 28, 2012 8:59AM

If this was a vintage fantasy baseball league, my first round pick would be Hank Aaron.

edited to add; If I was owner/GM of a team, my pick would be the same.

Dialj · February 28, 2012 9:00AM

Cobb

cwazzy · February 28, 2012 9:03AM

I'd go with Musial. Maybe not the stats of Mays but one of the best hitters of his era and a class act. I would have to think his positive attitude and hustle would more than make up for slight drop in numbers over the d-bag that is Willie Mays.

fiveniner · February 28, 2012 9:19AM

The Babe edges Teddy Ball Game IMO.

70ToppsFanatic · February 28, 2012 9:24AM

Ted Williams without hesitation. Remember he lost several YEARS to
WWII.

daddymc · February 28, 2012 9:27AM

I agree Ted Williams. He gave up all or part of six seasons to serve and still put up elite career numbers.

Bigjohn69 · February 28, 2012 9:29AM

my daddy, God rest his soul, still have bruises,,, Lord I apologize for that and bless the pigmy's in new guinea,,,,

JoeBanzai · February 28, 2012 9:33AM

You actually lose almost 5 seasons with Williams, he missed time for WWII and Korea. Mays is a good choice as well as Musial both had long careers and were very consistent.

Since you said hitters, I'll take Rogers Hornsby.

Joe

MantleMarisFordBerra · February 28, 2012 9:39AM

Hard to argue with Lou Gehrig; ya know he's gonna be in the line-up everyday.

Tedw9 · February 28, 2012 9:45AM

No doubt, Ted Williams.

VegasBaby · February 28, 2012 9:51AM

Put me in the Ted Williams camp as well. Best all around hitter in the history of the game. Ruth would be a very close #2 pick for me.

Nathaniel1960 · February 28, 2012 10:05AM

Hornsby.

summerof68 · February 28, 2012 11:01AM

Williams with Musial a close second. Both were great hitters and class acts--something MLB definitely needs more of today!

NVbaseball · February 28, 2012 11:10AM

<< (say the 2012 Pirates) ... For example, Williams would still take 3 years off to join the military in his prime >>

In the 1940s dozens, if not hundreds of top athletes fought the enemy on the battlefield. In this century my count is at one -- a good defensive back, but not a true all-time great. So losing Williams for five years and two wars would put him behind Ruth and Mays in terms of on field accomplishments. But having the guy who chooses to do something like that on the product you're selling would easily make him the most profitable choice

pmcollectour · February 28, 2012 11:11AM

If Mario Mendoza is not available, then I'll go with Teddy Ballgame as well.

JoeBanzai · February 28, 2012 12:11PM

I am a HUGE Ted Williams fan, but he was far far from a "class act" for most of his career he was a very childish person and often criticized for what was perceived as selfish play. He did serve our country two times, something no other ballplayer did, but he was quite unhappy when he was called to fight, especially in Korea. Read the book "Ted Williams" by Leigh Montville it's a fabulous book about Williams.

Joe

NickM · February 28, 2012 12:17PM

If we can take pre-WWII, it's Babe Ruth; if not, it's Willie Mays.
Look at WAR per season.

Nick

psychump · February 28, 2012 12:25PM

Mays hands down, add defense plus lost 2 3/4 seasons to the(a) war, NOT EVEN CLOSE BUB!!

orioles93 · February 28, 2012 12:26PM

Stan The Man

WinPitcher · February 28, 2012 12:29PM

Ruth, he could also pitch.

Dboneesq · February 28, 2012 12:34PM

so the players career statistics would exactly follow how it did in history, and there would be no way you could change it.

So does that mean Babe Ruth would still have the same amount of Home Runs, or would they be significantly higher and keep with history, whereby he hit more Home Runs in a season than ENTIRE TEAMS hit?

EDITED TO ADD: I just saw another thread where a 1920 Ruth Jersey is going up for sale. There was a LINK to an article which stated: He hit 54 home runs in 1920, obliterating his own major league record of 29 set a year earlier with the Red Sox. No other team in baseball hit more than 50, and no other individual hit even 20.

So based upon last year, the most HRs hit by a team was 222 by the Yankees. In 1920 Ruth hit 8% more than the next best TEAM hit in total. So in keeping with history, does that mean Ruth would hit 239 HRs for the Pirates this year? If so, I'll go with RUTH as my first pick.

In addition, even though the seating capacity of PNC Park is only 38,362, I believe the presence of a guy who will hit 239 Home Runs for the season will sell out every game. When was the last time the Pirates had 3,107,322 people show up in one year?

fkw · February 28, 2012 1:56PM

Babe Ruth ...............by farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !

matthewbschultz83 · February 28, 2012 2:20PM

<< Babe Ruth ...............by farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ! >>

Wins above Replacement supports this.

But under your scenario is he a pitcher the first 5-6 years of his "Pirate Career?"

soundgard · February 28, 2012 2:55PM

Williams

JoeBanzai · February 28, 2012 4:12PM

In his book "The Hit List" Ted Williams ranks the best hitters, in his opinion, according to a statistic called "Production" slugging % + on base %. It's what he felt was the best way to measure the best hitters. He did not rank himself, but his numbers would have made him #2 behind Ruth.

Rankings by numbers (Williams did not have them in this order, he moved them around a bit because of his personal opinions)

Ruth 1.163
Williams 1.116
Gehrig 1.080
Foxx 1.038
Hornsby 1.010
Mantle .979
Dimaggio .977
Musial .977

Mays had a much lower ob% because of a lower batting average. He comes in at #11 with a production of .944. Hank Greenberg was at 1.017, but had a very short career.

OP's question was hitter not best ballplayer. If it was ballplayer I would pick Mays.

Joe

Scottiec2288 · February 29, 2012 12:51AM

I would have to take Ruth, he was too much a game changer!!!!

Hallco · February 29, 2012 12:57AM

There are a lot of possibilities and I can agree with all of the choices, but as an owner/gm, winning games would be more important to me than just getting the best player. I would think that 755 Home Runs and almost 2300 RBIs would win me a ton of games, therefore give me the Hammer!

Yankees001 · February 29, 2012 1:02AM

Pre 1920: Ty Cobb
1920-1940: Ruth followed by Gehrig, Greenberg
1950-79 Ted Williams followed by Stan Musial

Dave

CollectorAtWork · February 29, 2012 5:47PM

<< 

<< Babe Ruth ...............by farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ! >>

Wins above Replacement supports this.

But under your scenario is he a pitcher the first 5-6 years of his "Pirate Career?" >>

Yea, my scenario was the player would exactly mimic his career stats on the absolute level. I wasn't thinking of including pre-war players, but it's still interesting to see these. So if you picked Ruth, he'd be a pitcher the first few years of his Pirates career, but he would rake when he batted in NL. So, you'd convert him to the outfield. He'd hit 54 HR's around his 5th year, but then he'd have another year where he'd basically have a season ending stomach ache injury.

estang · February 29, 2012 5:49PM

Babe Ruth. He could close a game on the mound for you too...

fiveniner · February 29, 2012 10:08PM

<< Pre 1920: Ty Cobb
1920-1940: Ruth followed by Gehrig, Greenberg
1950-79 Ted Williams followed by Stan Musial

Dave >>

jay0791 · February 29, 2012 10:42PM

Ruth

Many close 2nds.

As noted Teddy ballgame was not happy about serving in the military. He tried to be released in a court action in ww2.

Stll he served and tip your hat to him and all the other major league players who did. Minus tillman,,,,,can you imagine the uproar if an albert Pujols was drafted today???

In Korea where teddy actually flew.....they placed john glen ( aviator, astronuat, senator) as his wingman. If you put teddy in the air...better have someone real good covering his arse.

judgebuck · February 29, 2012 10:48PM

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ted Williams, Lou Gehrig, Willie Mays?

Noticed that DiMaggio wasn't mentioned, was he?

PowderedH2O · February 29, 2012 10:48PM

Mays hands down, add defense plus lost 2 3/4 seasons to the(a) war, NOT EVEN CLOSE BUB!!

When were these 2 3/4 seasons?

Mickey71 · March 1, 2012 1:41AM

The fat guy in pinstripes----regular season...post season....he did it all offensively. Forever changed the game with his raw power.

sayheykid54 · March 1, 2012 2:43AM

Pre-war - TY COBB

Post-war - TED WILLIAMS

The two best pure hitters in MLB history.

jwgators · March 1, 2012 2:58AM

<< Pre-war - TY COBB

Post-war - TED WILLIAMS

The two best pure hitters in MLB history. >>

What does "pure hitter" mean to you? Not really questioning your choices, just want your thoughts on it since this phrase is used often, but rarely discussed.

My vote goes to the Babe.

CEOBIDMC · March 1, 2012 5:14AM

Teddy Ballgame, but Ruth is a very very close 2nd.

psychump · March 1, 2012 5:27AM

<< Mays hands down, add defense plus lost 2 3/4 seasons to the(a) war, NOT EVEN CLOSE BUB!!

When were these 2 3/4 seasons? >>

My bad...Mays missed about 266 games due to military service. About 1 and 2/3 seasons

When is Vintage Era?

Pure Hitter:
1-Ruth
2-Williams (Missed almost 5 years due to military service!)
3-Roided out Bonds

Garabaldi · March 1, 2012 6:14AM

Never watched any of them, born in 1971. Looking at stats and seeing I am a huge Sox fan, I will go with Williams.

dtkk49a · March 1, 2012 8:09AM

My choice is Gehrig all the way. Class act, great hitter.

zendude · March 1, 2012 9:10AM

Babe Ruth. Hands down, no-brainer.

AC000000 · March 1, 2012 12:24PM

Well, the way I read it, From the thread title, and the content, there are two things here: who we think is the best hitter, and who we take first for a team. To me, there is a difference. So then, for me, I would say the best hitter of the vintage era was Ted Williams.

But the first player I would choose for my team would be Joe DiMaggio ( and I hate the Yankees). Maybe I am too much influenced by Richard Ben Cramer's outstanding book, but DiMaggio was players player. A leader of leaders on the field.

For the record book, and "back of the baseball card" yeah, I want stats. But on the field, I want trophies.

bigreddog · March 2, 2012 4:23PM

Ted Williams

scmavl · March 3, 2012 1:04AM

Stan Musial for his consistency.

trex · March 3, 2012 1:43AM

Willie Mays without a second thought.

Who Was The Best Hitter of the Vintage Era?

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