Prooflike Type B Reverse Quarters

harveypb · February 23, 2012 1:17PM

I was at the local coin club meeting this evening and I was sitting next to an old time collector who is hard to impress. I pulled out my 2 Type B Reverse Quarters, One 1959 NGC MS66 and a 1963 PCGS MS65 which both appear to have prooflike surfaces. I showed them to him and he was impressed. He noticed the die polishing marks on the obverse of both pieces which indicate that the dies were highly polished to
produce the prooflike surfaces that are visible on these two pieces. He asked me what they were worth. I told him that I didn't think that there were many out there and they probably haven't been recognized by too many collectors YET, but some time in the future they might get some recognition once more people find out about them. Check your high grade Type B Reverse quarters and see if any appear to have prooflike surfaces as well as the die polishing lines that go along with it. I tried to take pictures of it, but could not capture the prooflike surfaces with my digital camera.

Unknown · February 23, 2012 1:21PM

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harveypb · February 23, 2012 1:26PM

Any business strike coin with prooflike surfaces (Ex: Morgans) are just higher quality pieces and should command higher prices and more demand than just the run of the mill business strike Unc pieces.

NotSure · February 23, 2012 2:21PM

<< <i>Why would Pl surfaces be significant. >>

I second that......I think this whole PL Type B thing is wearing thin. They are, after all, STRUCK from proof dies, so, should it be a REAL surprise to see a few? Look at PL Morgans....some are actually worth LESS than MS. I don't think it will/should add ANY extra value to a Type B Washie.

Added...why SHOULD they command higher prices????

Unknown · February 23, 2012 2:22PM

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NotSure · February 23, 2012 2:34PM

Unless something gets designated, or recognized by the CPG, there should be no added premium commanded, like Realone says. Looks neat? Perhaps, but to command a premium? Nope. Look how long it took for the clad Type B, now Type H, to be recognized by the CPG, yet the silvers were recognized and attributed for awhile, and they were the same variety, just a long gap between (which I still can't figure out how/why they popped up after a 5 year gap), and the clads, man, the prices are going to make those of the silver look cheap. Sure, they commanded a premium, but different set of circumstances...there was a 5 year gap. Splitting hairs with this PL thing, and as a Type B supporter, I'm bowing out until a real recognition is involved.

edited to add ....'added' to premium

NotSure · February 23, 2012 4:29PM

Passing on this one. But, I WILL check for PL surfaces on mine and see if it COULD be something that could seperate the type, much like the re-engraved feathers on the 'Bird.

harveypb · February 24, 2012 7:16AM

Hey Notsure,

Did you happen to find any PL Type B reverses in your inventory??

relicsncoins · February 24, 2012 7:45AM

The reverse on this coin is PL, but not the obverse.

cladking · February 24, 2012 8:07AM

<< <i>The reverse on this coin is PL, but not the obverse.
>>

This is the same thing with the 1977 to 1984 type "d" reverse quarters; there are an inordinately
large number of PL specimens and the vast majority are PL on the reverse only. I believe these are
all related to the proof die production process and most are actually processed. Some of these odd-
ball reverses are actually struck by retired proof dies (at least in the clad era).

They played fast and loose with the quarter reverse dies and there are even mules with old reverse
dies paired with newer obverses.

This could not have been entirely caused by intention because most are far too scarce to represent
an attempt to maximize die usage. I believe the bulk were simply accidents and mixing up dies.

Boom · February 24, 2012 9:52AM

Edited to say, please disregard the question(s). I re-read your post & the questions I had were already addressed in your OP.

ProofArtworkonCircs · February 24, 2012 1:04PM

<<Unless something gets designated, or recognized by the CPG, there should be no added premium commanded, like Realone says. Looks neat? Perhaps, but to command a premium? Nope. Look how long it took for the clad Type B, now Type H, to be recognized by the CPG, yet the silvers were recognized and attributed for awhile, and they were the same variety, just a long gap between (which I still can't figure out how/why they popped up after a 5 year gap), and the clads, man, the prices are going to make those of the silver look cheap. Sure, they commanded a premium, but different set of circumstances...there was a 5 year gap. Splitting hairs with this PL thing, and as a Type B supporter, I'm bowing out until a real recognition is involved.>>

Although 1969 - 1965 = 5, there are only 4 years in the gap - 1965, 1966, 1967 and 1968. In 1965-1967 there were no proofs, hence no extra proof dies. In 1968 the recently invented type B-like type H was only put in production quite late in the year.

I am surprised that not much attention has been paid to the 1968 S proofs which come 4 ways. Circulation style CPG types E and F are quite scarce. Types G and H are proof only in that year.

NotSure · February 24, 2012 3:54PM

harveypb, I just checked that Type B site...I don't think your (meaning the guide you put together..you got credit for the guide....not offending you in any way, but.....your price guide is not really quite up tp snuff). $325 for a PCGS '56 Type B in MS66???? It has a CU guide of $900!!!!! $275 for a PCGS '61 in MS66, with a pop of 2/0??????? I think you really need to update that price guide. Though the '56 might not fetch the $900, it's $500-$600 minimum, with a pop of 5....more, perhaps, on a good day The '61, it has a CU price of $275 in 65.....IF you were able to pry one out of the 2 66's from the current owners hands, which the chances are nill. Counting any non attributed sales, you really can't figure those in. And you have 2 different worlds in pricing.......PCGS, and then all others. The guide needs to be revamped a bit. The , would cvertainly be higher than you have posted. There's a reason there are more PCGS graded coins is they fetch more $$, and they are stricter on the grading. The other 2 TPG's you list, much more than half would NOT cross at grade. The rest might not make it at 2 pts. I crossed an MS63 in the 'oldest graders' holder, and it came back AU58. I, personally, have a number of certs from all 3 TPG's, and the pops shown on that site are not exact.

There needs to be some serious adjusting done to that site's pops and prices. Perhaps you should turn on your PM function. After all, if the site is there to help, you should have as much fact as possible to help get the best info out there. Just my opinion...if not, the site really isn't going to benefit anyone.

Herb, you are correct with the years in the gap.....but whats 1 year between friends? Been a tough week! lol

harveypb · February 25, 2012 12:37AM

Notsure, Obviously you have been collecting Rev B quarters for longer than I have.... If you can update the price guide with more accurate prices, please do.... It would be a great help to all concerned. Would you have one price guide for PCGS coins and another for NGC coins and still another for ANACS coins?? By the way, did you find any Rev B that you might call PL???? How do I turn on my PM?? I am running Win 7 32 bit.

NotSure · February 25, 2012 1:20AM

Harvey...to activate your private message function, go to the top of the page, under 'navigation', click on 'profile', about half way down the page, you'll see 'Allow private messages'...just put the 'dot' on 'yes', then scroll to bottom of page to update the setting. Once it's been updated, you'll notice a 'lock' symbol, right next to where your 'lightbulb' is, at the top of any posts you, or anyone else, makes. You'll notice it on all members posts. When you want to send a PM, you click that 'lock', a window pops up, and you can send a PM to whoever you want. Simple as that. I think it would be beneficial for you so you can be contacted privately, as well as others that want to contact you here, in regard to any posts on this subject, or any other subject you want to discuss with another member about, without having to go on and on in a thread.

ProofArtworkonCircs · February 25, 2012 1:21AM

Speaking of proof-like, there is a possibilty of a 1969 D thru 1972 D clad type B-like type H quarter being struck on a proof planchet.

Some Eisenhower dollars are known to exist on proof planchets. Ike dollars usually show chatter especially near the rims. These came from being tumbled in the anealing drum. The resulting scratches are not all smoothed out by the striking of the coin. Proof planchets were annealed while traveling on a belt.

If San Francisco rejected a proof planchet (or most anything else), it would get sent on to Denver.

I have chased these clad quarters since 1973 and I have never seen a unc one. At most, I have heard of 5 specimens in unc.

harveypb · February 25, 2012 2:13AM

Hey Notsure, I am using Internet Explorer. How do I enable messeging?? I downloaded Microsoft Messaging.

NotSure · February 25, 2012 2:33AM

Harey, no need for messaging....just use the PM function on this site, as was explained how to activate it.

harveypb · February 25, 2012 2:54AM

Notsure..... I enabled it on this site..... Thanks!!!!

emzee · February 25, 2012 3:40AM

ProofArtworkonCirc:

Thanks for the info in your post regarding rejected SF proof dies/planchets going to Denver - I had never seen any of this before in print.

In searching Jefferson 5c rolls in the 1980's and 1990's, I came upon rolls of 1980-d (and, I think, 1981-d) 5c containing multiple specimens with cameo PL reverses. Since I already knew about (and collected) type B 25c at the time, it occurred to me that reject/used proof 5c dies were being used to make business strike 5c at Denver. I just looked at one such 1980-d 5c I own in a PCGS ms65 fs holder, and I saved others raw.

Regarding MS coins struck on intentionally on proof planchets, I believe they exist from prior to 1969. Specifically, I have a group of 1958 ms 5c struck on proof planchets. Strike makes it obvious that these 5c are not proof coins. They are not FS and appear mushy, having been struck from dies that are LDS or VLDS. The planchets of these coins are starkly different from typical 1958 ms 5c planchets in 2 ways:

1) They are silky-smooth in appearance, totally devoid of planchet abrasions. I have searched 25-30 rolls, and all of the other coins are obviously abraded, including three I own graded ms 63 -65 FS by PCGS.

2) The color of the (proof) planchets is bright-white, in stark contrast to the other 99+% of 1958 5c I examined. All others were dark to very dark.

I will attempt to post pics of these 5c tomorrow.

Michael

ProofArtworkonCircs · February 25, 2012 10:52AM

Here are some more San Francisco influences on Denver coinage.
The 1970 D quarters on dime stock planchets were planchets from SF.
The 1974 D and 1977 D silver Ikes must have been on SF planchets.
I also assume that is where the 1969 D thru 1972 D type B-like type H dies came from.

Prooflike Type B Reverse Quarters

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