The Yankees are praying that A-Rod gets a lifetime ban....and somehow I have the feeling that is exactly what is going to happen. Freeing up $30m a year helps the Yankees stay on top, which is what Bud Selig wants. He needs the Yanks in the playoffs every year to drive ratings.
Really? Two off the top of my head for MLB are Canseco (retired) and Pettitte (active). Want to rephrase that statement or did you mean something else? >>
Where was Canseco's candor as an active player? Where was his need to call out players when he was banking millions using PEDs himself, and many other teammates? As far as Pettite goes, he admitted to using himself, but I cannot for the life of me recall him standing up and pointing out individual players who were using PEDs, just his pathetic excuse that he only used them to recover from injury.
<< <i>The Yankees are praying that A-Rod gets a lifetime ban....and somehow I have the feeling that is exactly what is going to happen. Freeing up $30m a year helps the Yankees stay on top, which is what Bud Selig wants. He needs the Yanks in the playoffs every year to drive ratings. >>
There's no way that Arod gets a lifetime ban. He might sit a year, but more than likely will be a 100 game suspension, but suggesting that he will get a lifetime ban is a pipe dream. Even with that $30 million, the yankees method of team construction no longer works. Waiting for other teams stars to become free agents? That's not happening any more. Teams are locking up their great young players to long term contracts much sooner, keeping them from the open market.
Until Selig and MLB realize that what drives ratings is *not* endlessly parading PED users and instead focusing on the game, MLB ratings are going to suck.
<<<Until Selig and MLB realize that what drives ratings is *not* endlessly parading PED users and instead focusing on the game, MLB ratings are going to suck.>>>
I'm not sure there is anything Bud can do to save ratings. There's been a fundamental shift in TV and sports watching, and ratings have fallen consistently for baseball World Series in the last 30 years. It's just not as popular a game as it used to be.
<< <i>Where was Canseco's candor as an active player? Where was his need to call out players when he was banking millions using PEDs himself, and many other teammates? As far as Pettite goes, he admitted to using himself, but I cannot for the life of me recall him standing up and pointing out individual players who were using PEDs, just his pathetic excuse that he only used them to recover from injury. >>
Pettitte fingered Clemens before misremembering. I'm sure you can understand that concept considering you've revised fundamental points of your argument several times now...
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Again, given the opportunity to make tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars, each and every one of these media types huffing and puffing would do EXACTLY what Braun did. >>
This logic would seem to suggest that drug use in baseball is at 100%
Yeah, Pettite sure was damning in that Clemens accusation. I mean it sure was broad and wide wasn't it? Oh wait, it was *one*player, and then he retracted the accusation. The fact that you had to reach to come up with any single active player calling out another shows just how prevalent the hypocrisy is when it comes to reporting on PED users in MLB. Players of any sport honestly couldn't care less about what their teammates are doing and using, just as long as it helps the team win more games.
As far as the idea that Arod is going to see a lifetime ban, that's downright hilarious. He's never failed a test, and each and every news outlet is reporting something different about Arod's upcoming suspension.
"Alex Rodriguez will cut a deal with MLB." Then, 24 hours later: "Alex Rodriguez will not cut a deal with MLB." This is a mess.
Today's talking point is apparently "Alex Rodriguez could be banned for life." It started with this tweet from the CBS Evening News, which sounded particularly ominous. But the actual report on last night's broadcast tells us—well, pretty much nothing. Here's what turned out to be the precise wording of the claim, from a team executive. "They have an overwhelming amount of evidence on this guy showing multiple years of usage," the executive said. "He's met with Major League Baseball. He's seen the evidence. He is staring down a penalty much, much harsher than Braun's. It could be years... or even a lifetime suspension."
So to be straight, a team executive—who probably knows less about the progress of MLB's centralized PED investigation than, say, T.J. Quinn—muses that given the strength of baseball's case, Rodriguez could face a suspension longer than Ryan Braun's. Anywhere from 66 games to infinity games. This is news only if you don't follow baseball—which, to be fair, CBS's audience may not—and to tease the lifetime ban concept as a revelation is a little disingenuous.
It's tempting to discard nearly every piece of news on Rodriguez, since after all, we had no idea Braun was going to be the first player disciplined, or that he would cut a deal, until it actually happened. With the looming PED suspensions, both the players and MLB stand to gain from floating information to the media and thereby the public—even if that information isn't strictly true. To readers trying to parse unattributed leaks: pay close attention to what identification is given for that source, and ask yourself how that leak would benefit that source's interests.
(The most obvious example: an MLB source says A-Rod faces a lifetime ban. If MLB actually intends that, it gains nothing from putting the threat out there early—but does perhaps serve to scare Rodriguez into copping a plea, which indicates that MLB isn't 100 percent confident of getting the penalty it wants based on the evidence it has.) Need some more headspinning? Last night, Bob Nightengale of USA Today reported that Alex Rodriguez has no intentions of making a deal. The night before, Wallace Matthews of ESPN had reported that Alex Rodriguez is seeking to make a deal.
Using the handy-dandy "who stands to gain by this leak" method, note that Nightengale's report comes from "people close to Rodriguez." The easiest read on this is that Rodriguez's camp is issuing a public challenge to MLB—show your hand, because A-Rod isn't folding. (Matthews's claim cites only "sources," and the actual quote makes it sound like it's from someone well-removed from the investigation.)
Whatever the outcome, there's no doubt MLB wants to crush Rodriguez. Unlike Braun, he's never tested positive for PEDs, though he's been linked to them for a decade. But the real vendetta is because A-Rod supposedly interfered with MLB's investigation—Rodriguez reportedly paid a Biogenesis employee to obtain incriminating documents. It's worth noting that MLB's conduct has been just as unethical. After Biogenesis founder Tony Bosch reportedly tried to blackmail Rodriguez into funding his defense, and Rodriguez declined, Bosch took what he had and gave it to MLB—in exchange for protection from future legal action."
Look, you're obviously upset that A-Rod is going to get popped. I feel your pain, bro. Don't be mad, the sun will come up tomorrow and you move on.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Look, you're obviously upset that A-Rod is going to get popped. I feel your pain, bro. Don't be mad, the sun will come up tomorrow and you move on. >>
I'm hardly "upset", just telling you that you can wish for him to get a lifetime ban all you want, but taking one report that says it's going to happen and ignoring the countless other sources that report otherwise is foolish. It's hilarious that people want to single out Arod for using PEDs, meanwhile guys like Petitte who has already failed a test gets a pass, simply because Andy's more 'likeable'.
Even funnier? The only people suggesting that players are outraged over PED use is the media and retired players. I sure as heck didn't hear Curt Schilling calling out players like Manny when it meant a world series title. I didn't hear Eric Byrnes or any of these other ex-players raise even a peep until they got jobs in the media, where it gets them airtime and publicity to call for PED use to stop.
You must be *really* upset because you're not thinking clearly nor rationally.
For one, I've never wished that A-Rod should get a lifetime ban. He's definitely going to get popped, no one disputes that, but the length of his suspension is totally up in the air. The peanut gallery, which includes (but not limited to) everyone here, has zero input and we'll just have to wait and see.
As for that picture, and I'm sure it's just a total coincidence, Bill Simmons tweeted it earlier. Out of the hundreds you could have chosen, you decided to use the exact same one his 2.1M followers saw seven hours earlier.
Take a deep breath and relax, it's going to be okay.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
We all obviously know about the Ben Johnson cover from 1988. How about the other one from 1969? All the commissioners baseball went through over the 30+ years refused to do anything about these drugs. Fortunately we had Bud Selig to step in and finally institute testing. Of course Ryan Braun and Alex Rodriguez now prove that testing won't catch the drug users
<< <i>Fortunately we had Bud Selig to step in and finally institute testing. >>
I don't give Bud any credit for doing the right thing. Firmly believe that pressure came from Congress and they threatened to take away MLB's anti-trust exemption, which resulted with very harsh penalties and a program some say is tougher than the OIC.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
There is absolutely no question Selig did far more than Uebertoth or Kuhn, both of whom refused to do anything. During all those decades the players, management, fans and media didn't do anything to push drugs out of the sport. If anything, they were all embracing the place of drugs in the sport
Maybe Selig did only act because he was under pressure. But everyone else who could have made any action against drugs refused for so long no matter what
<< <i>You must be *really* upset because you're not thinking clearly nor rationally. >>
Hardly upset, and I've said it I don't know how many times, but I couldn't possibly care less what players use what substances. I realize the money at stake and the low chance of getting caught makes it nearly impossible for anyone in their position to say no.
<< <i>For one, I've never wished that A-Rod should get a lifetime ban. He's definitely going to get popped, no one disputes that, but the length of his suspension is totally up in the air. The peanut gallery, which includes (but not limited to) everyone here, has zero input and we'll just have to wait and see. >>
But yet of all the possible penalties, you linked to the lifetime ban one. Interesting.
<< <i>As for that picture, and I'm sure it's just a total coincidence, Bill Simmons tweeted it earlier. Out of the hundreds you could have chosen, you decided to use the exact same one his 2.1M followers saw seven hours earlier. >>
Of course it was the same photo, and I posted it here because it perfectly illustrates the total and complete hypocrisy of the sports media when it comes to PED use. I'm still waiting for you or anyone to show me evidence of a current player calling out a teammate for PED use. The reason? Players simply don't care who uses what (which is my view) as long as it helps them wins games. Period. That's all these athletes care about - winning.
Most, if not all, of us empathize with your heartfelt disappointment. Chances are, for a variety of reasons, an athlete you admire gets into serious trouble. It shows and I'm sorry you're going through it. I've been there, it sucks, but you'll pull through.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>There is absolutely no question Selig did far more than Uebertoth or Kuhn, both of whom refused to do anything. During all those decades the players, management, fans and media didn't do anything to push drugs out of the sport. If anything, they were all embracing the place of drugs in the sport
Maybe Selig did only act because he was under pressure. But everyone else who could have made any action against drugs refused for so long no matter what >>
Selig is as culpable as anyone for the problem that PEDs have become in MLB. He (and his owner buddies) greedily looked the other way as roided out guys like McGwire and Sosa were saving baseball in 1998, after these same owners crashed the 1994 season.
Selig tried to play the saint at Bonds' record breaking homer, stuffing his hands in his pockets and making a big show out of not applauding. But this bum is one of the primary reasons PED use is so prevalent in baseball to begin with.
Bud enabled the steroid culture but ultimately, the athletes are responsible their own actions. When the MLBPA accepted strict guidelines and suspensions, the players that continued to take PEDs and interfered with MLB investigations (ie A-Rod), they deserve whatever comes their way.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Selig is as culpable as anyone for the problem that PEDs have become in MLB. He (and his owner buddies) greedily looked the other way as roided out guys like McGwire and Sosa were saving baseball in 1998, after these same owners crashed the 1994 season. >>
The home run record chase from McGwire and Sosa happened 10 years after Canseco won his MVP. Selig started as acting commissioner a full 25 years after other sports banned PEDs and started testing. From the time other sports started drug testing until baseball finally had drug testing the CBA had been negotiated nine times (seven of those times someone other than Selig was commissioner) -- and every time both the players and management refused to even consider any effective drug controls
<< <i> The home run record chase from McGwire and Sosa happened 10 years after Canseco won his MVP. Selig started as acting commissioner a full 25 years after other sports banned PEDs and started testing. From the time other sports started drug testing until baseball finally had drug testing the CBA had been negotiated nine times (seven of those times someone other than Selig was commissioner) -- and every time both the players and management refused to even consider any effective drug controls >>
Of course management and the players wanted to refuse drug testing - both sides benefitted from the huge numbers being put up, and owners were desperate to get fans back in the seats after the disasterous 1994 campaign. However, that doesn't absolve Selig from negligence - he, too, stood to benefit from players using PEDs so he conveniently looked the other way as player after player showed up and hitting home runs in record setting fashion. Where was Bud calling for drug testing as guys started hitting 50, 60 home runs regularly?
The reason he didn't? It wouldn't have been profitable to do so. Period. For him to call for stringent drug testing in the late 90s or early 2000s as the entire long ball era was reaching a peak didn't make sense.
No, I'm sorry, but the players, owners AND Bud Selig are all equally responsible for the PED culture that was not only allowed to permeate baseball - it was wholly embraced and rewarded.
<< <i>Of course management and the players wanted to refuse drug testing - both sides benefitted from the huge numbers being put up, and owners were desperate to get fans back in the seats after the disasterous 1994 campaign. >>
It was Selig who finally won that fight against the idea of putting profits ahead of health and safety.
So many of us, Bud Selig included, appreciated and celebrated baseball when there was no drug testing. But just as many of us can appreciate Jim Morrison or the Beattles, we would much rather see them achieve success without the burdens of drug abuse. Taking a few years longer than you would have liked only shows that it was a very hard fight, not that Selig was against eliminating drugs
You didn't inject that... Someone else made that happen.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Of course management and the players wanted to refuse drug testing - both sides benefitted from the huge numbers being put up, and owners were desperate to get fans back in the seats after the disasterous 1994 campaign. >>
It was Selig who finally won that fight against the idea of putting profits ahead of health and safety.
So many of us, Bud Selig included, appreciated and celebrated baseball when there was no drug testing. But just as many of us can appreciate Jim Morrison or the Beattles, we would much rather see them achieve success without the burdens of drug abuse. Taking a few years longer than you would have liked only shows that it was a very hard fight, not that Selig was against eliminating drugs >>
But the question remains on both examples is: how much lower would their performances have been with no substances? Selig desperately needed baseball back in the public spotlight after the 1994 World Series was called off and if meant selling his sports soul then that's what he was willing to do. Yes he ultimately pushed for drug testing but it happened long after it should have.
<< <i>But the question remains on both examples is: how much lower would their performances have been with no substances? >>
That isn't the question at all. The question is why were they allowed to abuse drugs with virtually zero risk of punishment? The answer is not because Selig wanted them. It's because everyone else through the entire history of the sport wanted them. Heavy drug use was a part of sports long before 1998; heavy drug use was a part of sports long before Selig every became commissioner. If he really wanted to see the celebration of those home run records, he would have followed the same path of all the commissioners before him and made sure drug testing and enforcement never became a part of the sport
For those of us who wish drugs weren't a part of baseball, we would have much preferred testing to have started in the 1970s like it did for other sports. To say Bud Selig was part of the reason for why that didn't happen is being ridiculous
<< <i>But the question remains on both examples is: how much lower would their performances have been with no substances? >>
That isn't the question at all. The question is why were they allowed to abuse drugs with virtually zero risk of punishment? The answer is not because Selig wanted them. It's because everyone else through the entire history of the sport wanted them. Heavy drug use was a part of sports long before 1998; heavy drug use was a part of sports long before Selig every became commissioner. If he really wanted to see the celebration of those home run records, he would have followed the same path of all the commissioners before him and made sure drug testing and enforcement never became a part of the sport
For those of us who wish drugs weren't a part of baseball, we would have much preferred testing to have started in the 1970s like it did for other sports. To say Bud Selig was part of the reason for why that didn't happen is being ridiculous >>
Would you agree that it was in baseball's (including the commissioner) best interest to allow rampant PED use which resulted in a number of record setting performances? Especially in light of the hit that MLB took in regards to the 1994 World Series being cancelled? Would baseball ever have come back without Sosa and McGwire chasing history in 1998? I (and many others) would argue that baseball would never have recovered, let alone shot to the profitability it currently enjoys now, without those two and a litany of other home run mashing players.
Bud Selig, was and remains a close friend of the owners, having been one for so long until his tenure as commissioner. If he was truly serious about cracking down on PED use, he wouldn't have waited until Congress threatened to take away MLB's tax benefits. Period. That is the only reason he began the heavy push for PED testing. All the other sports were able to get drug testing long before MLB, and it was because Selig, with the blessing of the owners, wanted it that way.
<< <i>If he was truly serious about cracking down on PED use, he wouldn't have waited until Congress threatened to take away MLB's tax benefits. Period >>
Congress threatening to take away MLB's antitrust exemption has absolutely *nothing* to do with tax benefits. Period. You're probably confusing that with the NFL but that's what happens when someone posts while being upset. Calm down and think rationally.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Comments
<< <i>
Really? Two off the top of my head for MLB are Canseco (retired) and Pettitte (active). Want to rephrase that statement or did you mean something else? >>
Where was Canseco's candor as an active player? Where was his need to call out players when he was banking millions using PEDs himself, and many other teammates? As far as Pettite goes, he admitted to using himself, but I cannot for the life of me recall him standing up and pointing out individual players who were using PEDs, just his pathetic excuse that he only used them to recover from injury.
<< <i>The Yankees are praying that A-Rod gets a lifetime ban....and somehow I have the feeling that is exactly what is going to happen. Freeing up $30m a year helps the Yankees stay on top, which is what Bud Selig wants. He needs the Yanks in the playoffs every year to drive ratings. >>
There's no way that Arod gets a lifetime ban. He might sit a year, but more than likely will be a 100 game suspension, but suggesting that he will get a lifetime ban is a pipe dream. Even with that $30 million, the yankees method of team construction no longer works. Waiting for other teams stars to become free agents? That's not happening any more. Teams are locking up their great young players to long term contracts much sooner, keeping them from the open market.
Until Selig and MLB realize that what drives ratings is *not* endlessly parading PED users and instead focusing on the game, MLB ratings are going to suck.
I'm not sure there is anything Bud can do to save ratings. There's been a fundamental shift in TV and sports watching, and ratings have fallen consistently for baseball World Series in the last 30 years. It's just not as popular a game as it used to be.
<< <i>Where was Canseco's candor as an active player? Where was his need to call out players when he was banking millions using PEDs himself, and many other teammates? As far as Pettite goes, he admitted to using himself, but I cannot for the life of me recall him standing up and pointing out individual players who were using PEDs, just his pathetic excuse that he only used them to recover from injury. >>
Pettitte fingered Clemens before misremembering. I'm sure you can understand that concept considering you've revised fundamental points of your argument several times now...
And in related news:
Report: Alex Rodriguez Is Looking To Make Deal; Could Face Lifetime Ban
<< <i>Again, given the opportunity to make tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars, each and every one of these media types huffing and puffing would do EXACTLY what Braun did. >>
This logic would seem to suggest that drug use in baseball is at 100%
<< <i>And in related news:
Report: Alex Rodriguez Is Looking To Make Deal; Could Face Lifetime Ban >>
Yeah, Pettite sure was damning in that Clemens accusation. I mean it sure was broad and wide wasn't it? Oh wait, it was *one*player, and then he retracted the accusation. The fact that you had to reach to come up with any single active player calling out another shows just how prevalent the hypocrisy is when it comes to reporting on PED users in MLB. Players of any sport honestly couldn't care less about what their teammates are doing and using, just as long as it helps the team win more games.
As far as the idea that Arod is going to see a lifetime ban, that's downright hilarious. He's never failed a test, and each and every news outlet is reporting something different about Arod's upcoming suspension.
Don't Believe Anything You Read About Arod's Suspension
"Alex Rodriguez will cut a deal with MLB." Then, 24 hours later: "Alex Rodriguez will not cut a deal with MLB." This is a mess.
Today's talking point is apparently "Alex Rodriguez could be banned for life." It started with this tweet from the CBS Evening News, which sounded particularly ominous. But the actual report on last night's broadcast tells us—well, pretty much nothing. Here's what turned out to be the precise wording of the claim, from a team executive.
"They have an overwhelming amount of evidence on this guy showing multiple years of usage," the executive said. "He's met with Major League Baseball. He's seen the evidence. He is staring down a penalty much, much harsher than Braun's. It could be years... or even a lifetime suspension."
So to be straight, a team executive—who probably knows less about the progress of MLB's centralized PED investigation than, say, T.J. Quinn—muses that given the strength of baseball's case, Rodriguez could face a suspension longer than Ryan Braun's. Anywhere from 66 games to infinity games. This is news only if you don't follow baseball—which, to be fair, CBS's audience may not—and to tease the lifetime ban concept as a revelation is a little disingenuous.
It's tempting to discard nearly every piece of news on Rodriguez, since after all, we had no idea Braun was going to be the first player disciplined, or that he would cut a deal, until it actually happened. With the looming PED suspensions, both the players and MLB stand to gain from floating information to the media and thereby the public—even if that information isn't strictly true. To readers trying to parse unattributed leaks: pay close attention to what identification is given for that source, and ask yourself how that leak would benefit that source's interests.
(The most obvious example: an MLB source says A-Rod faces a lifetime ban. If MLB actually intends that, it gains nothing from putting the threat out there early—but does perhaps serve to scare Rodriguez into copping a plea, which indicates that MLB isn't 100 percent confident of getting the penalty it wants based on the evidence it has.)
Need some more headspinning? Last night, Bob Nightengale of USA Today reported that Alex Rodriguez has no intentions of making a deal. The night before, Wallace Matthews of ESPN had reported that Alex Rodriguez is seeking to make a deal.
Using the handy-dandy "who stands to gain by this leak" method, note that Nightengale's report comes from "people close to Rodriguez." The easiest read on this is that Rodriguez's camp is issuing a public challenge to MLB—show your hand, because A-Rod isn't folding. (Matthews's claim cites only "sources," and the actual quote makes it sound like it's from someone well-removed from the investigation.)
Whatever the outcome, there's no doubt MLB wants to crush Rodriguez. Unlike Braun, he's never tested positive for PEDs, though he's been linked to them for a decade. But the real vendetta is because A-Rod supposedly interfered with MLB's investigation—Rodriguez reportedly paid a Biogenesis employee to obtain incriminating documents. It's worth noting that MLB's conduct has been just as unethical. After Biogenesis founder Tony Bosch reportedly tried to blackmail Rodriguez into funding his defense, and Rodriguez declined, Bosch took what he had and gave it to MLB—in exchange for protection from future legal action."
<< <i>Look, you're obviously upset that A-Rod is going to get popped. I feel your pain, bro. Don't be mad, the sun will come up tomorrow and you move on. >>
I'm hardly "upset", just telling you that you can wish for him to get a lifetime ban all you want, but taking one report that says it's going to happen and ignoring the countless other sources that report otherwise is foolish. It's hilarious that people want to single out Arod for using PEDs, meanwhile guys like Petitte who has already failed a test gets a pass, simply because Andy's more 'likeable'.
Even funnier? The only people suggesting that players are outraged over PED use is the media and retired players. I sure as heck didn't hear Curt Schilling calling out players like Manny when it meant a world series title. I didn't hear Eric Byrnes or any of these other ex-players raise even a peep until they got jobs in the media, where it gets them airtime and publicity to call for PED use to stop.
For one, I've never wished that A-Rod should get a lifetime ban. He's definitely going to get popped, no one disputes that, but the length of his suspension is totally up in the air. The peanut gallery, which includes (but not limited to) everyone here, has zero input and we'll just have to wait and see.
As for that picture, and I'm sure it's just a total coincidence, Bill Simmons tweeted it earlier. Out of the hundreds you could have chosen, you decided to use the exact same one his 2.1M followers saw seven hours earlier.
Take a deep breath and relax, it's going to be okay.
edited to add: The image url are the same, both point to -> http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/1998/1221_large.jpg
<< <i>I'll just leave this here...
>>
We all obviously know about the Ben Johnson cover from 1988. How about the other one from 1969? All the commissioners baseball went through over the 30+ years refused to do anything about these drugs. Fortunately we had Bud Selig to step in and finally institute testing. Of course Ryan Braun and Alex Rodriguez now prove that testing won't catch the drug users
<< <i>Fortunately we had Bud Selig to step in and finally institute testing. >>
I don't give Bud any credit for doing the right thing. Firmly believe that pressure came from Congress and they threatened to take away MLB's anti-trust exemption, which resulted with very harsh penalties and a program some say is tougher than the OIC.
Maybe Selig did only act because he was under pressure. But everyone else who could have made any action against drugs refused for so long no matter what
<< <i>You must be *really* upset because you're not thinking clearly nor rationally. >>
Hardly upset, and I've said it I don't know how many times, but I couldn't possibly care less what players use what substances. I realize the money at stake and the low chance of getting caught makes it nearly impossible for anyone in their position to say no.
<< <i>For one, I've never wished that A-Rod should get a lifetime ban. He's definitely going to get popped, no one disputes that, but the length of his suspension is totally up in the air. The peanut gallery, which includes (but not limited to) everyone here, has zero input and we'll just have to wait and see. >>
But yet of all the possible penalties, you linked to the lifetime ban one. Interesting.
<< <i>As for that picture, and I'm sure it's just a total coincidence, Bill Simmons tweeted it earlier. Out of the hundreds you could have chosen, you decided to use the exact same one his 2.1M followers saw seven hours earlier. >>
Of course it was the same photo, and I posted it here because it perfectly illustrates the total and complete hypocrisy of the sports media when it comes to PED use. I'm still waiting for you or anyone to show me evidence of a current player calling out a teammate for PED use. The reason? Players simply don't care who uses what (which is my view) as long as it helps them wins games. Period. That's all these athletes care about - winning.
<< <i>There is absolutely no question Selig did far more than Uebertoth or Kuhn, both of whom refused to do anything. During all those decades the players, management, fans and media didn't do anything to push drugs out of the sport. If anything, they were all embracing the place of drugs in the sport
Maybe Selig did only act because he was under pressure. But everyone else who could have made any action against drugs refused for so long no matter what >>
Selig is as culpable as anyone for the problem that PEDs have become in MLB. He (and his owner buddies) greedily looked the other way as roided out guys like McGwire and Sosa were saving baseball in 1998, after these same owners crashed the 1994 season.
Selig tried to play the saint at Bonds' record breaking homer, stuffing his hands in his pockets and making a big show out of not applauding. But this bum is one of the primary reasons PED use is so prevalent in baseball to begin with.
<< <i>Selig is as culpable as anyone for the problem that PEDs have become in MLB. He (and his owner buddies) greedily looked the other way as roided out guys like McGwire and Sosa were saving baseball in 1998, after these same owners crashed the 1994 season. >>
The home run record chase from McGwire and Sosa happened 10 years after Canseco won his MVP. Selig started as acting commissioner a full 25 years after other sports banned PEDs and started testing. From the time other sports started drug testing until baseball finally had drug testing the CBA had been negotiated nine times (seven of those times someone other than Selig was commissioner) -- and every time both the players and management refused to even consider any effective drug controls
<< <i>
The home run record chase from McGwire and Sosa happened 10 years after Canseco won his MVP. Selig started as acting commissioner a full 25 years after other sports banned PEDs and started testing. From the time other sports started drug testing until baseball finally had drug testing the CBA had been negotiated nine times (seven of those times someone other than Selig was commissioner) -- and every time both the players and management refused to even consider any effective drug controls >>
Of course management and the players wanted to refuse drug testing - both sides benefitted from the huge numbers being put up, and owners were desperate to get fans back in the seats after the disasterous 1994 campaign. However, that doesn't absolve Selig from negligence - he, too, stood to benefit from players using PEDs so he conveniently looked the other way as player after player showed up and hitting home runs in record setting fashion. Where was Bud calling for drug testing as guys started hitting 50, 60 home runs regularly?
The reason he didn't? It wouldn't have been profitable to do so. Period. For him to call for stringent drug testing in the late 90s or early 2000s as the entire long ball era was reaching a peak didn't make sense.
No, I'm sorry, but the players, owners AND Bud Selig are all equally responsible for the PED culture that was not only allowed to permeate baseball - it was wholly embraced and rewarded.
<< <i>Of course management and the players wanted to refuse drug testing - both sides benefitted from the huge numbers being put up, and owners were desperate to get fans back in the seats after the disasterous 1994 campaign. >>
It was Selig who finally won that fight against the idea of putting profits ahead of health and safety.
So many of us, Bud Selig included, appreciated and celebrated baseball when there was no drug testing. But just as many of us can appreciate Jim Morrison or the Beattles, we would much rather see them achieve success without the burdens of drug abuse. Taking a few years longer than you would have liked only shows that it was a very hard fight, not that Selig was against eliminating drugs
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<< <i>Of course management and the players wanted to refuse drug testing - both sides benefitted from the huge numbers being put up, and owners were desperate to get fans back in the seats after the disasterous 1994 campaign. >>
It was Selig who finally won that fight against the idea of putting profits ahead of health and safety.
So many of us, Bud Selig included, appreciated and celebrated baseball when there was no drug testing. But just as many of us can appreciate Jim Morrison or the Beattles, we would much rather see them achieve success without the burdens of drug abuse. Taking a few years longer than you would have liked only shows that it was a very hard fight, not that Selig was against eliminating drugs >>
But the question remains on both examples is: how much lower would their performances have been with no substances? Selig desperately needed baseball back in the public spotlight after the 1994 World Series was called off and if meant selling his sports soul then that's what he was willing to do. Yes he ultimately pushed for drug testing but it happened long after it should have.
<< <i>But the question remains on both examples is: how much lower would their performances have been with no substances? >>
That isn't the question at all. The question is why were they allowed to abuse drugs with virtually zero risk of punishment? The answer is not because Selig wanted them. It's because everyone else through the entire history of the sport wanted them. Heavy drug use was a part of sports long before 1998; heavy drug use was a part of sports long before Selig every became commissioner. If he really wanted to see the celebration of those home run records, he would have followed the same path of all the commissioners before him and made sure drug testing and enforcement never became a part of the sport
For those of us who wish drugs weren't a part of baseball, we would have much preferred testing to have started in the 1970s like it did for other sports. To say Bud Selig was part of the reason for why that didn't happen is being ridiculous
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<< <i>But the question remains on both examples is: how much lower would their performances have been with no substances? >>
That isn't the question at all. The question is why were they allowed to abuse drugs with virtually zero risk of punishment? The answer is not because Selig wanted them. It's because everyone else through the entire history of the sport wanted them. Heavy drug use was a part of sports long before 1998; heavy drug use was a part of sports long before Selig every became commissioner. If he really wanted to see the celebration of those home run records, he would have followed the same path of all the commissioners before him and made sure drug testing and enforcement never became a part of the sport
For those of us who wish drugs weren't a part of baseball, we would have much preferred testing to have started in the 1970s like it did for other sports. To say Bud Selig was part of the reason for why that didn't happen is being ridiculous >>
Would you agree that it was in baseball's (including the commissioner) best interest to allow rampant PED use which resulted in a number of record setting performances? Especially in light of the hit that MLB took in regards to the 1994 World Series being cancelled? Would baseball ever have come back without Sosa and McGwire chasing history in 1998? I (and many others) would argue that baseball would never have recovered, let alone shot to the profitability it currently enjoys now, without those two and a litany of other home run mashing players.
Bud Selig, was and remains a close friend of the owners, having been one for so long until his tenure as commissioner. If he was truly serious about cracking down on PED use, he wouldn't have waited until Congress threatened to take away MLB's tax benefits. Period. That is the only reason he began the heavy push for PED testing. All the other sports were able to get drug testing long before MLB, and it was because Selig, with the blessing of the owners, wanted it that way.
<< <i>That isn't the question at all. >>
Heh.
<< <i>If he was truly serious about cracking down on PED use, he wouldn't have waited until Congress threatened to take away MLB's tax benefits. Period >>
Congress threatening to take away MLB's antitrust exemption has absolutely *nothing* to do with tax benefits. Period. You're probably confusing that with the NFL but that's what happens when someone posts while being upset. Calm down and think rationally.