Spain wins lawsuit over shipwreck recovered coins.

SkyMan · February 20, 2012 3:44PM

Talk about getting screwed, the ~594,000 gold and silver coins worth ~ $500,000,000 that Odyssey Marine Exploration (OME) found on a galleon in 2007 must be returned to the Spanish government. OME not only gets nada, the ruling stated that the Spanish govt. didn't need to reimburse OME for preserving and storing the treasure. Here's a link to the article.

link

I totally agree with the end couple of sentences that in essence the Spanish government has hurt it's long term chances, as there is no question that any treasure recovery in the future will definitely be off the books.

HoledandCreative · February 20, 2012 4:32PM

That is sickening. That judge must be on something. Sounds like the maritime laws need tweaking.

rec78 · February 20, 2012 8:45PM

Lets see now-- you do something totally legally-take all the risks-do all the work,get all the financing, invent systems to recover the stuff, and get punished for it-. Anything involving money, especially large sums of money, becomes a big hassle as governments want to get their hands on it whether they deserve it or not. This ruling is totally stupid. I hope they go off-course to some other country. Now they are also being kicked in the teeth by being told that they must return it to Spain in a week. The lesson here is that if you find something valuable-- DO NOT TELL ANYONE-keep it a total secret and let it seep out slowly. The Odyssey people did the right thing (OR wrong thing) depending on your perception by bringing the booty to the US - They could have taken it anywhere--(SWITZERLAND comes to mine for some reason) and hid it and slowly sold them or gave the foreign country some of the loot and they would have been much better off.

Andres · February 20, 2012 9:57PM

not even a findersfee of 10%
usually these shipwreck finds are split 50-50 , Rex Cowan found a couple of dutch VOC shipwrecks
and these coins were split between him & his team, and the dutch government.

Stork · February 21, 2012 3:15AM

Wow, and I guess it's too late to dump it back in the water and say 'get it yourself' and 'oh, geez, I guess we must have transposed a few numbers on our location--perhaps with funds we can upgrade our computers and figure out what that location is'.

Regardless of all the other issues, not to be compensated for the conservation...that's ridiculous. Eminent domain theoretically at least gives lip service to compensation.

Yikes.

worldcoinguy · February 21, 2012 3:35AM

That whole story reeks of politics. For the best of me, I do not understand why the US would sacrifice the Odyssey find for the benefit of one private citizen in CA. If Odyssey would have recouped the salvage and conservation costs, perhaps that would have been a more equitable solution. I have no skin in the game, but the whole thing smells foul to me.

Edited for spelling

TwoKopeiki · February 21, 2012 3:48AM

Wasn't there something leaked on WikiLeaks with regards to private discussions between US and Spain where they used Odyssey as a bargaining chip?

Stork · February 21, 2012 4:08AM

<< That whole story reeks of politics >>

SaorAlba · February 21, 2012 5:13AM

The Greeks and Cypriots are trying to get every coin that remotely could have circulated in their countries - and to some extent they are succeeding. A worrisome trend for the future me thinks.

icsoccer · February 21, 2012 10:07AM

Toss um back in...let them go get them.

rec78 · February 21, 2012 7:51PM

<< Toss um back in...let them go get them. >>

.

accidently spill them in the Marianas trench.

SaorAlba · February 21, 2012 8:49PM

Too late, the Spanish air force sent over two C-130's to Florida to pick up the coins. They have them now.

worldcoinguy · February 22, 2012 12:15AM

This story stuck with me last night as my mind wondered. I didn't happen to notice what coins comprised most of the world crowns. Does anybody have more info on the breakdown of dates, mints, etc? I was curious to know what a discovery of this magnitude does to known populations of coins.

OldEastside · February 22, 2012 2:30AM

There should be a international law that if there ins't and active
recovery effort withen 50 years, it's finders keepers, first come
first serve.

Steve

coinpictures · February 22, 2012 2:47AM

How the hell does Spain get all of the loot and Odyssey not get any of their expenses in finding, recovering, storing, and preserving it reimbursed, let alone a legit finder's fee?

Now that the precedent has been set, the treasure hunting business is one that I would be getting out of toot sweet.

That judge could conceivably have just sent the company into bankruptcy, given the expenses incurred (unlikely in this case, but a ruling like this could easily cause a company to go under). What the hell am I missing?

Stork · February 22, 2012 3:24AM

I wonder if there was an 'unofficial' payment so the 2 governments could save face? Ah, CTD (conspiracy theory disease). I have it sometimes.

Jinx86 · February 22, 2012 8:56AM

I usually dont get mad reading the news, but wow. What a switft kick in the....well their not gonna be seeing a single piece from the sea in the future. Hope they use the money well.

Sapyx · February 22, 2012 9:30PM

<< ... in essence the Spanish government has hurt it's long term chances, as there is no question that any treasure recovery in the future will definitely be off the books. >>

This was, of course, the entire purpose of the lawsuit - to try to make sure Odyssey in particular, and treasure hunters in general, never touch another Spanish shipwreck again. Spain doesn't want any of their shipwrecks salvaged, certainly not by non-Spaniards and non-archaeologists.

<< Eminent domain theoretically at least gives lip service to compensation. >>

Eminent Domain is where a government seizes personal property on behalf of the State. Spain claims these coins were part of a war grave and therefore State property to begin with, and Odyssey had no permission or right to remove them. Besides, I don't believe Spain has the concept of Eminent Domain in its legal system.

<< Does anybody have more info on the breakdown of dates, mints, etc? I was curious to know what a discovery of this magnitude does to known populations of coins. >>

There will undoubtedly be a whole swag of Spanish research papers on the makeup of the find, once their archaeologists have finished examining them. I don't think Odyssey had time to do anything but the most basic cleaning and counting before it became clear to them their ownership of the coins would be challenged. One can assume that, since the ship was a treasure barge that sank in 1804 enroute from the Latin American silver mines to Spain, the vast majority of the coins would have been freshly minted, within a year or two of that date.

Not that such matters make any difference to the price or availability of Spanish coins on the collector market. Now that Spain owns them, not one single coin from this find will ever make it to the collector market.

Which is something several of the posters in this thread seem to have missed. Spain is not going to make one red cent from the sale of these coins, because they have no intention of ever selling them. Rather, Spain will spend money to build a couple of nice new museums to house them in, and there the coins will stay until the end of time (or maybe until Spain has another war or revolution and the museums are looted). The coins will be a government asset, but not a source of government income (unless you count the pittance charged to museum visitors).

MacCrimmon · February 22, 2012 9:39PM

<< 

<< Spain is not going to make one red cent from the sale of these coins, because they have no intention of ever selling them. Rather, Spain will spend money to build a couple of nice new museums to house them in, and there the coins will stay until the end of time (or maybe until Spain has another war or revolution and the museums are looted). The coins will be a government asset, but not a source of government income (unless you count the pittance charged to museum visitors). >>

Or, when the time comes for a Eurozone/EMF bailout.

SaorAlba · February 22, 2012 10:09PM

I want to see Peru take on the Spanish government, in fact they should have begun the procedure as soon as Spain started the legal maneuvering. They would have a pretty good argument that the treasure was looted from Peru.

Andres · February 23, 2012 3:17AM

3 dutch VOC ships went down near the Australian coast , the Batavia (1629) , the Gilded Dragon ( 1656) and the Zuytdorp (1712)
much of the cargo such as coins and other stuff was recovered, and ended up in dutch museums and depots.
when the Australian government asked if they could get the coins and other stuff back, because it was part of their history,
the dutch government agreed and shipped all the stuff to Australia (for free).

Since these coins were recovered from a spanish ship ,but wrecked before the Portuguese coast,
the Portugues government could ask for this cargo , because its part of their history

Hussulo · February 23, 2012 3:29AM

Seems an unfair decision.

I believe the latest agreement with the UK is much fairer.
According to an article in the Latest Coin News magazine in the UK entitled "Raising Victory" they say " HMS Victory is to be raised from its resting place in the English channel.. salvage experts Odyssey Marine Exploration have worked with the UK's Maritime Foundation to determine its future. It has been decided that Odyssey will raise the wreck which will then be handed over to the Foundation. The bulk of any treasure on board will go to Odyssey as determined under salvage laws. the remaining artefacts will go display in the British museum" sounds like the fairest deal.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/guernsey/8299835.stm

coinpictures · February 23, 2012 3:32AM

Unfortunately when it comes to politics, what is "fair" has nothing to do with it. It has more to do with who's getting paid under the table or one government doing a "favor" for another... and Odyssey is caught in the middle.

Hussulo · February 23, 2012 3:40AM

What about "salvage laws"? was the wreck not in International waters?

worldcoinguy · February 23, 2012 5:29AM

Odyssey must be the 800 lb gorilla of the salvage world.

worldcoinguy · February 23, 2012 5:35AM

Where is that popcorn icon? This might be interesting.

Peru petitioning U.S. Supreme Court not to allow Spain to take possession of the treasure.

candy2012mustang · February 23, 2012 5:53AM

.....and i was waiting for the Treasure Auction....

SaorAlba · February 23, 2012 6:24AM

Beginning in 1492 illegal and unwanted immigrants started interloping, murdering, plundering, pillaging etc the North and South American continents. As a descendent of the First Nations that were here long before I am starting to get ideas that perhaps I should sue the Spanish, British, and American governments for reparations for lost land and family members.

You all can make amends by sending me your gold and silver treasures.

1jester · February 23, 2012 6:39AM

<< 

<< 

<< Spain is not going to make one red cent from the sale of these coins, because they have no intention of ever selling them. Rather, Spain will spend money to build a couple of nice new museums to house them in, and there the coins will stay until the end of time (or maybe until Spain has another war or revolution and the museums are looted). The coins will be a government asset, but not a source of government income (unless you count the pittance charged to museum visitors). >>

Or, when the time comes for a Eurozone/EMF bailout.

>>

Mac took the words right out of my mouth. The banksters are not going to go down easily, and they will loot every singe iota of precious metal reserves of every country which "owes" them money (see how Greek national gold is to be seized as collateral for the loans...). This is how it's going down.

Spain wins lawsuit over shipwreck recovered coins.

Comments