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Better Date Seated Quarter NEWPs from Lakeland - Out of my Comfort Zone
Walkerguy21D
Posts: 11,647 ✭✭✭✭✭
At the semi annual Lakeland Show on Friday, I found a couple better date Barber quarters (95S, 97O) and halves (1900S, 1903S) in VF to squirrel away, and picked up two nice toners, a 36S dime and 39D halves in PCGS 6 holders, all at around sheet prices, which I was very comfortable doing.
But what really intrigued me was a dealer who had an amazing run of raw seated quarters in his case, FAR more than what is typically seen at just about any show. Apparently he just acquired most of a better set from someone who had been working on it for quite awhile. A specialist was ahead of me, so I walked around while he selected a few for his collection. There were still plenty left when I came back.
The only notes on the holders were prices and mintages. The prices listed were quite strong, at least to me - at least double sheet, and well above RedBook.
Still, I was intrigued and looked at quite a few, finally choosing two that looked fairly wholesome, had low mintages figures, and with a little negotiating he came down about 10%
So, what do you guys think, gradewise? And are these genuinely scarce coins? Given the previous absence of dates like these, I would have to think so, but I was still pretty nervous paying such a premium for coins I have little experience with.
The 1880 has a little more color variation and a more natural look than I could capture.
The 1868 is a nice medium gray coin, which also isn't quite what is shown, but close enough:
But what really intrigued me was a dealer who had an amazing run of raw seated quarters in his case, FAR more than what is typically seen at just about any show. Apparently he just acquired most of a better set from someone who had been working on it for quite awhile. A specialist was ahead of me, so I walked around while he selected a few for his collection. There were still plenty left when I came back.
The only notes on the holders were prices and mintages. The prices listed were quite strong, at least to me - at least double sheet, and well above RedBook.
Still, I was intrigued and looked at quite a few, finally choosing two that looked fairly wholesome, had low mintages figures, and with a little negotiating he came down about 10%
So, what do you guys think, gradewise? And are these genuinely scarce coins? Given the previous absence of dates like these, I would have to think so, but I was still pretty nervous paying such a premium for coins I have little experience with.
The 1880 has a little more color variation and a more natural look than I could capture.
The 1868 is a nice medium gray coin, which also isn't quite what is shown, but close enough:
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Comments
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
EAC 6024
<< <i>Nice quarters. You will pay a premium for nice Seated material. >>
In my experience as a dealer specializing in Bust and Seated silver coins, double sheet is about right for these two scarce dates.
And Bosco is correct, the 1868 is rarer than the 1880.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
The 1868 is a decent date but gets lost among the much more desireable 1866, 1867, and 1869. In circ the 66 and 69 are two of the key Philly dates and
rank well along with the rare 53 NA and 73 NA cl 3. I also like the 1842 LD and 1851 too. Among O mints I love 40-0 lg O wd, 42-0 sd, 43-0 lg O , 47-0, 51-0, 52-0.
In the S mints I like 60-s, 64-s, 66-s, 67-s, 71-s, and 72-s. In a set of seated quarters those would typically be the top 20 that got me excited and could be worth multiples
of current CDN. There are also some grade rarities in the O and S mints be that's for another time. The cc's are of course great coins, but they also cost great amounts of cash.
When a "set" is offered, it typically is missing most of the above coins. In my hoarding days back in the 1970's I acquired up to 9 specimens each of some of these dates. My only
mistake was not hanging on to them for the long term. Never dreamed some of these would increase in value 50X. I think the neatest circ I had back then was a perfect chocolate
colored 67-s in XF/AU that cost me $130. That would have been $5,000 just a few years ago. Ironically, I owned the finest known 1867-s as well (MS67) and it didn't perform as well
as that XF from 1975-2005....go figure!
I guess I didn't do too bad, but I had no idea the 1880 was a 'hoarded date'.....I figured no real hoarding occured until the early 1930s (apart from things like Col Green and 1913 Lib nickels) - so I missed that by a mile!
Yes, you specialist guys would have probably made better choices. The dealer said the guy ahead of me bought the 1866S and 1867S for his set, so those were off the table, and I would not have risked that kind of dough anyway without more knowledge to back me up.
EAC 6024
Bob
damage or cleaning. But certainly in problem free VF-AU these are very tough pieces, esp. the 59-s. Even 30-40 yrs ago most people placed the 59-s too high in the S mint
ranking, mainly due to low mintage and that it was unavailable in unc. Back then, the 60-s, 64-s, 66-s, 67-s, 71-s, and 72-s probably cost no more than a 59-s, when
you could find them. You'd often find AG-Fine 55-s, 57-s, 58-s and 59-s for sale in price lists, but almost never would find those later top 6 dates. And invariably people would
toss in the 65-s, 68-s, and 69-s as being equivalent when they were anything but that. A 57-s in VF-AU is a good coin on its own merits, but it's unfortunate it has to compete
with a slew of other S mints that are tougher in that grade.
When it comes down to it, 75% of the seated quarter dates/mints are tough to find, especially problem free and in VF or better. There aren't that many later 19th century
series where most dates are a challenge. I guess that's what drew me to this series in the first place in the early 1970's. It was like getting something for nothing.
They seem like nice original mid-grade coins and I feel if you stayed south of $150, $300 you probably did alright. The 1868 has a low mintage but is not that scarce in grade as a VF coin. The 1880 is tougher, especially for a circulated example. Most after 1878 were kept like proofs so despite the low mintage they exist for sale with some frequency.
<< <i>if you stayed south of $150, $300 you probably did alright >>
I was significantly higher than those figures
<< <i>
<< <i>if you stayed south of $150, $300 you probably did alright >>
I was significantly higher than those figures
In retrospect I may be $75 or so low on both. Those prices are more dealer to dealer than retail; not that I'm a dealer but what I thought they would bring at a show for sale by a non-specialist dealer. In any event, nice coins from what I can see from the pictures. 1880 is a little streaky on the obverse (right/bottom).
The 1868 tends to get little notice in the 1860's better dates but I think it's quite a bit tougher than dates like 57-s, 64, 65, 65-s, 68-s, 69-s, etc.
But like all Philly mint coins there are hundreds of surviving proofs to muddy up the waters and provide a sort of "cap" on prices.
EAC 6024
I'd place the 49-0, 51-0, 52-0, 71-s at about 2X the rarity of the 1868. Yeah, the 1868 might be as much as 2-1/2X the rarity of the 1880 but 2X is a fair estimate. We can't
count proofs and even the uncs cloud the issue. Most date collectors are looking for Fine-AU's and in that respect the 1868 and 1880 are not 2X apart. For how few seated
quarter date set collectors there are, specimens of most dates are more than plentiful enough to fill demand. But hoarders, speculators, dealers, and even seated collectors are
more than happy to stock up on the rarest dates (like 42-0 sd, 49-0, 51-0, 52-0, 60-s, 64-s, 71-s, 72-s etc.) even if they don't fit into a set scenario.
<< <i>A 2X factor applied to seated quarters really widens the field, especially when scarce dates have around 125-250 pcs known, and semi-scarce dates around 250-500 pcs known.
I'd place the 49-0, 51-0, 52-0, 71-s at about 2X the rarity of the 1868. Yeah, the 1868 might be as much as 2-1/2X the rarity of the 1880 but 2X is a fair estimate. We can't
count proofs and even the uncs cloud the issue. Most date collectors are looking for Fine-AU's and in that respect the 1868 and 1880 are not 2X apart. For how few seated
quarter date set collectors there are, specimens of most dates are more than plentiful enough to fill demand. But hoarders, speculators, dealers, and even seated collectors are
more than happy to stock up on the rarest dates (like 42-0 sd, 49-0, 51-0, 52-0, 60-s, 64-s, 71-s, 72-s etc.) even if they don't fit into a set scenario. >>
Based on prices and not rarity I bought my 1868 in PCGS50 at about 25% of what I paid for my 52-o in PCSG40. I felt the 52-o was a puchased at a fair (Ebay) price and thought the 68 was purchased at a pretty good price from a known specialty dealer. Although, 2 purchases does not set a trend.
I could not get a same grade 52-o at double or even 4x the price of a similiarly graded 68 IMHO. I feel it's closer to 5x.
Freddie