Question: Are Crossovers & Regrades "Blindly" Re-Evaluated?

RichR

These's been much recent discussion re one TPG's grading over the other...however, my question is this...in the normal sequence of events, does a grader know the original grade and TPG assigning that grade of the coin he is now being asked to re-evaluate. Or is that info concealed?

I only ask, because human nature being what it is...if a grader does have that information, then he would likely be hesitant to significantly diverge from either the original grade (on a re-grade) or might be biased, either consciously or unconsiously, on a crossover.

mbogoman

Along the same lines, the question I have on cross-overs is how do they deal with minimum grades? Assuming that the answer to your question is that the grading is blind and that the coin looks like any other raw coin, it would seem that some preliminary assessment must be made while the coin is in its original holder before it gets cracked out to go through the grading process. Is this correct?

mingot

Rich,

I'd like the official answer to this as well, but what I have heard is that they used to cover the original grade, but now they don't -- graders can see it.

magikbilly

"I only ask, because human nature being what it is...if a grader does have that information, then he would likely be hesitant to significantly diverge from either the original grade (on a re-grade) or might be biased, either consciously or unconsiously, on a crossover."

I would hope these sorts of general TPG type procedural questions would be answered by now to the satisfaction of the paying customer? Maybe they are. Anyway, I would also hope the grader in your hypothetical might hear the little voice coming out of the coin...first Could $ play any part in why he might not?

Eric

RichR

<<that they used to cover the original grade, but now they don't -- graders can see it.>>

I really REALLY hope that is not the case...as that would seriously skew any hope/claim of impartiality.

lkeigwin

Graders have to see holders in crosses. How else can decisions be made? I suppose the grades could be concealed, decisions made, and comparisons done. But I doubt it.

Regrades are always cracked. I have been told by PCGS that graders don't see the original grade but once a new grade decision is made it has to be compared to the old one to determine if a grade guarantee is involved.
Lance.

RichR

<<Graders have to see holders in crosses. How else can decisions be made? I suppose the grades could be concealed, decisions made, and comparisons done. But I doubt it.>>

Well then, IF true...and crossover grades are not concealed....then that would severly undermine the statistics quoted by many others of one TPGs grades being superior/inferior to the other based largely on the results of crossovers...because then either inadvetant or deliberate human bias would be coming into play.

A better test would be to compare grades between crackouts from one TPG followed by "raw" regrades to the other TPG...thereby eliminating the bias. Unfortunately, compiling statistics like those would be difficult (at best).

DonWillis

Yes, all grades are concealed.

Regrades are graded as if they are a raw coin submission. Before the graders see the coins they are, 1) verified as being in a legitimate PCGS holder, and 2) cracked out of the holder and put into a flip. Only after all grading is complete and the coin has a grade in the system does the verifier see what the previous grade was. Regrades are guaranteed not to go down in grade but can go up.

Crossovers are 'hooded' so that the top part of the holder is covered and grade is not visible. The graders grade the coin in the holder. As I have said before this can cause problems if the holder is all scratched up, or hides the coin. Our graders are not going to guess. I have always thought you are better off cracking the coin out and sending it in raw (or asking us to crack it out for you). That assumes the coin is problem free. If it isn't then you have another problem, but it isn't with PCGS.

cheezhed

Thanks Don.

RichR

Thanks for the input, Don.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Billet7

Doing crossovers from other companies I would spend way too much time trying to "call" what the other company graded it as. I would keep a running total of how close I was, and a running total of what the average of the spread was. In the end you could feasibly come up with an average of how far over, or under a particular grading company was in respect to PCGS. I would know that on average a coin certified by XRY company has the tendency of grading 2 points lower than PCGS...so forth and so on. I would really have fun with it.

I'm sure someone has done it (it wouldn't be unwise for PCGS to do it.)

19Lyds

<< <i>Doing crossovers from other companies I would spend way too much time trying to "call" what the other company graded it as. I would keep a running total of how close I was, and a running total of what the average of the spread was. In the end you could feasibly come up with an average of how far over, or under a particular grading company was in respect to PCGS. I would know that on average a coin certified by XRY company has the tendency of grading 2 points lower than PCGS...so forth and so on. I would really have fun with it.

I'm sure someone has done it (it wouldn't be unwise for PCGS to do it.) >>

As a layman, sure, but a professional MUST feel confident in his/her grading opinions since they are only opinions. Some coins may require a "discussion" but the vast majority do not. I know that most of us would like to believe that there is hesitancy in grade assignments since we routinely "discuss" already assigned grades to which we either agree or disagree. The big difference is that our work has already been done and we're offering an opinion on an opinion instead of a grading opinion.

As a submitter, I have to agree with PCGS's Grading Policies and Procedures, otherwise, why would I even bother to submit coins to them? <sip>

Billet7

Sure, but don't you see the value in assessing how other companies stack-up to yours? As a TPG it gives them the opportunity to evaluate if they are, professionally, where they want to be, As a collector it offers a moneymaking and value-mining opportunity. It has nothing to do with the graders abitliy or confidence of being able to grade accurately, it has to do with the "other guys" being able to grade accurately. I would spend time trying to see how close the "other guys" came to the standard (I consider PCGS as close to a standard as this imperfect enterprise can possibly be.)