If someone is really good at shill bidding...

doog71

Is there really any way to detect it?

Or do I just accept it as a fact of Ebay these days?

Thanks

Sean1125

Accept it.

doog71

Sean can I ask you to summarize why you feel this way?

How prevalent do you think shilling is?

Sean1125

Less prevalent than most of the members on the board make it seem.

There are a few sellers that people KNOW shill... Just avoid them... In every day user auctions it really isn't possible to detect accurately.

JoeBanzai

Just don't bid more than you are willing to pay and shill bidders can't hurt you.

If you are going to put in a ridiculously high bid you can get burned by a shill or by another bidder that does the same thing. I learned the hard way and just don't bid that way anymore.

Joe

CrazyMind2017

<< <i>Just don't bid more than you are willing to pay and shill bidders can't hurt you. >>



Not true. If you're willing to pay $100 for an item, but would have won it at $75, and the seller shills it up to $95 with a few minutes to go in the auction, are you not hurt by this? How is the seller not stealing $20 from you? It's never excusable to shill up a legitimate bid that has already been placed, and it most definitely hurts buyers.

On the flip side, a seller can argue that some types of shilling are merely a way to avoid reserve fees. For example, if a seller has a minimum price of $150, but does not want to pay the reserve price insertion fee, he can start the bidding at a low number without any reserve, and then have one of his buddies bid $149, setting a defacto reserve price. If his buddy wins the auction for $149 or less, they just cancel the transaction and relist the item. If a stranger comes along and bids $151, he wins the auction, they complete the sale, and everyone is happy. I don't really have a problem with this, since it's only ebay getting hurt. But the "shill" bid should only be placed once, and it should be done early on (preferably the very first bid), so that when a legitimate bidder surpasses the shill/reserve price, he's not blindsided. Sellers who continually bid up an item multiple times, making it appear as if there's a bidding war when there's really not, are complete scum.

trex

CrazyMind2017, from what I've seen, especially on select cards on Ebay, you're right on the mark. I see this stuff going on all the time, and I've been burned exactly as you described...once. Won't happen again. Seems to me it's very prevalent on Ebay. One of the many reasons I try to avoid Ebay at all costs unless there is absolutely no other alternative.

Reljac

I think we all know that Joe's point was that you won your item for what you were willing to pay. Of course you didn't get the bargain you would've otherwise. Of course for these reasons I tend to either bid the minimum or snipe. Leaving your true bid is just asking to be screwed with.

Smuggo

Isn't the point to win the item for as much under the max you're willing to pay?
Leaving a max proxy bid early doesn't serve that end IMO. You are just asking to get run up.
Assume it happens on ebay with amazing frequency and you will probably be close to right.

doog71

I recently won a close to $200 item that had the same bidder bid around 12 times, and 24% of his lifetime bids were from this same seller. My problem is I don't know if something like that is a red flag or not...

Dpeck100

It can be a sign of that but not always.

Lots of people have different bidding styles and when a seller is offering a set break or similar items you can have a large concentration of bids with one seller.

WinPitcher

Bidders can collude, sellers can shill.

Brick

I occasionally bid on an item but most of the time I snipe. If I knew for a fact, not probable, but for a fact I was being shilled I would retract my bid.

JoeBanzai

Just to clarify........I agree shill bidding is wrong. From my experience there is nothing you can do to stop it. Your only alternative is to bid the most you are comfortable paying, or retract your bid, which I don't believe in, and then you won't get the item anyway.

I understand that you want to get the item at the lowest possible price. Shill bidding is the reason I gave up on SCD auctions and came to eBay. Not perfect by any means, but the best game in town.

Have fun collecting!

Joe