@BuffaloIronTail said:
The two coins are considered "novelty" coins. Ira Reed, a coin dealer from Philadelphia had 104 sets of both the 1937 Lincoln Cent and Buffalo Nickel reeded at a Philadelphia machine shop.
They were made to be distributed at the 1941Philadelphia ANA Convention.
Some were given out as souvenirs, and the rest were sold for 4 or 5 Dollars each.
The "reeding" of the coins was a play on Ira's last name. (Reed)
Authenticity has always been a problem with these coins, as anyone could reed the edges of 1937 coins and pass them off as genuine.
Pete
Martin...........if you disagree with a post it would be nice to tell all of us why.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
@BUFFNIXX said:
wonder if the grading services will slab these?
Probably not. There is a reason for this. Back in the 1960's the coins were just a curiosity. In fact, I heard that at least one set and one or two nickels were certified in the 1970's. I'll bet that somewhere there is a photograph of the edge of these coins. Now that they are worth more, and the fact that they can be easily made by a machinist with the right tools, without a genuine comparison piece... Don't be bashful, this is not a test!! Heck, I should be banned from CU for all my opinions...LOL! Answer to be posted later.
Take a look at these edges I've posted. Which is the genuine piece?
@BUFFNIXX said:
wonder if the grading services will slab these?
Probably not. There is a reason for this. Back in the 1960's the coins were just a curiosity. In fact, I heard that at least one set and one or two nickels were certified in the 1970's. I'll bet that somewhere there is a photograph of the edge of these coins. Now that they are worth more, and the fact that they can be easily made by a machinist with the right tools, without a genuine comparison piece... Don't be bashful, this is not a test!! Heck, I should be banned from CU for all my opinions...LOL! Answer to be posted later.
Take a look at these edges I've posted. Which is the genuine piece?
Sorry, I forgot about this post! Looks like it died. IMO the reason a TPGS will not authenticate the novelty coins in the OP is unless there is a pedigreed example or two so the reeding can be ID'ed, it should be virtually impossible to tell for sure.
Each of these edges is on a genuine contemporary "Racketeer " nickel with most of the gold worn off. You can see a little remaining on one edge. Most modern replicas for sale are just gold plated with a normal smooth edge. Even when one of the modern "replicas" is reeded, they look nothing like this. I have heard that authenticators can tell with at least 98% accuracy between a "modern" fabrication and a contemporary specimen. The Same method of authentication would possibly be of use on the cents and nickels but comparison coins would work the best.
It should be very informative to get a number of these coins together and see if we can map the dies. I seems to me that the maker would have simply bought a bank-wrapped roll for each denomination and had them reeded. If that's the case, there should be only one or two (3 max) different die states in a single roll. With that info and the edge reeding, authenticators should have a very easy time authenticating the things.
I have owned 5 sets over the years and bought this one in the holders, just because I have never seen any other holdered, agree with not sure what weight SEGS carries. Somewhere I have research correspondence from around 1972-1973 on these with Charles Hoskins and others. Legend is that they were reeded in the Philly mint's machine shop, but consensus was it could well be any decent shop with a milling device. Mine are available to compare any time for die states.
@swag said:
I have owned 5 sets over the years and bought this one in the holders, just because I have never seen any other holdered, agree with not sure what weight SEGS carries. Somewhere I have research correspondence from around 1972-1973 on these with Charles Hoskins and others. Legend is that they were reeded in the Philly mint's machine shop, but consensus was it could well be any decent shop with a milling device. Mine are available to compare any time for die states.
I heard that some of these were seen and certified at the Certification Service in Washington. I'll bet they made a record of the reed count and took photos!
That's one of the ways to count reeding but it distorts them. If the coins are loose, I sure would like to see a magnified straight-on image of the edge. That allows us to see what the reed and the inside of the groove base look like.
At the ANA convention in New York in 1976, dealer Abe Kosoff showed me a very unusual item. It was a small thick card about 25% smaller than a business card and there were two coins in the card visible from either side. One was a BU 1937 cent and the other a BU 1937 buffalo nickel What made this pair unusual was that they were both reeded! I examined the coins closely with my 10x loupe and sure enough the reeding was exactly what I'd expect on US minted coins- except the US Mint never reeded cents or nickels. In fact the reeding was much more like that of a half dollar-much larger than one would expect on these sized coins.
Kosoff explained that a fellow dealer named Ira Reed from Philadelphia had made a small number of these special "business cards" perhaps as few as 40 and probably less than 100. The date 1937 was probably chosen as the year Reed opened his coin business. They were available at the 1941 ANA convention and were given free to selected dealers and $4-$5 each to the public.
Comments
Martin...........if you disagree with a post it would be nice to tell all of us why.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Pete
Probably not. There is a reason for this. Back in the 1960's the coins were just a curiosity. In fact, I heard that at least one set and one or two nickels were certified in the 1970's. I'll bet that somewhere there is a photograph of the edge of these coins. Now that they are worth more, and the fact that they can be easily made by a machinist with the right tools, without a genuine comparison piece... Don't be bashful, this is not a test!! Heck, I should be banned from CU for all my opinions...LOL! Answer to be posted later.
Take a look at these edges I've posted. Which is the genuine piece?
Top 2 fake? (3rd real)
Third one. The first two just look bad. Just my guess as I've never seen a set of these
Collector, occasional seller
Don't leave us in suspense....
Sorry, I forgot about this post! Looks like it died. IMO the reason a TPGS will not authenticate the novelty coins in the OP is unless there is a pedigreed example or two so the reeding can be ID'ed, it should be virtually impossible to tell for sure.
Each of these edges is on a genuine contemporary "Racketeer " nickel with most of the gold worn off. You can see a little remaining on one edge. Most modern replicas for sale are just gold plated with a normal smooth edge. Even when one of the modern "replicas" is reeded, they look nothing like this. I have heard that authenticators can tell with at least 98% accuracy between a "modern" fabrication and a contemporary specimen. The Same method of authentication would possibly be of use on the cents and nickels but comparison coins would work the best.
@FredWeinberg is the expert on reeding on 1913 "V" nickels.
Apparently he has other competencies too.
Here are pictures of my 1937 Reeded Edge cent and nickel, including the edges.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Nice!
Here is a pair in slabs, so no edge photos. Sorry for poor photo quality.
It should be very informative to get a number of these coins together and see if we can map the dies. I seems to me that the maker would have simply bought a bank-wrapped roll for each denomination and had them reeded. If that's the case, there should be only one or two (3 max) different die states in a single roll. With that info and the edge reeding, authenticators should have a very easy time authenticating the things.
That's a great set. Just not sure what weight SEGS carries, but it is certainly better than nothing.
I have owned 5 sets over the years and bought this one in the holders, just because I have never seen any other holdered, agree with not sure what weight SEGS carries. Somewhere I have research correspondence from around 1972-1973 on these with Charles Hoskins and others. Legend is that they were reeded in the Philly mint's machine shop, but consensus was it could well be any decent shop with a milling device. Mine are available to compare any time for die states.
I heard that some of these were seen and certified at the Certification Service in Washington. I'll bet they made a record of the reed count and took photos!
Very helpful parabolic mirror images !!!!
Do you think their reeding is struck by a reeded collar or applied after strike ?
My 37 reeded cent looks die struck, to me.
Lindy
Thanks, Lindy, it's a wonder what you can do with a flashlight mirror.
I have no idea as to when the reeding was applied, but I have a friend who is a metallurgist and I will show him the pix.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
That's one of the ways to count reeding but it distorts them. If the coins are loose, I sure would like to see a magnified straight-on image of the edge. That allows us to see what the reed and the inside of the groove base look like.
Old Thread Update
Dave Wnuck has a pair now if anyone is interested. Here are his pics. The Capital Plastics holder is a nice touch.
I'll take all you can find at face value!
Heritage sold a set for $1,997.50 at Long Beach in 2016. That's way over the original $4/pair price.
Great story on these by Dr. Sol Taylor who was shown these coins by Abe Kosoff in 1976:
@FredWeinberg also has a set available.
Listed in the 8th, 9th, and 10th edition of the Redbook. Then removed thereafter.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"