Let's stir things up a little. I hate it when...
NumisMe
Posts: 841 ✭✭
#1 A member plays the YN card just to try to elicit sympothy from a seller, or to make it look like they are really great young collectors making killer deals on coins that most of us cannot afford.
Now don't get me wrong, I know that there are a few very good YN collectors doing excellent things in the hobby, and business end of numismatics, but in many cases, it is quite obvious that daddy is playing the kid card all by himself.
We all tend to give special consideration to a young collector who is just coming into his own, or just getting started in numismatics for the fun of it, or even for a school project, knowing that we may be able to have some positive influence on his, or her, development in the hobby. So when someone takes advantage of this and uses it just to get a better deal, it hurts all of us. It tends to jade us to the point that we get irritated whenever someone claims to be a YN, unless we know for a fact that they actually are. It also hurts the real YNs because of this reaction, when it is not deserved.
This is especially evident in a number of Registry Sets that are clearly noted as belonging to a YN, yet all dealings are with daddy. Especially when large sums of money are being slung around and we know that this is no YN set. Then when that sets gets to number one, it is pulled a short time later leaving the "Legacy" behind. How does this benefit the hobby, or the Registry? How does this teach youth anything other than maybe, how to use daddy's money to show that you are better than everyone else. I just don't get it, but then, I was, and never will be rich, or spoiled.
#2 A set is put up, and within a matter of months, or even weeks, the set is built up to number one, after shelling out a great deal of money to do so. Then, the icing on the cake is when, after making the Top Spot, the set is pulled and sold off within a few more months, again, leaving those of us who have struggled for many years to build a number one set, just sitting there looking at number two, with no chance of ever being able to afford the coin needed to move back up.
It sure does make it hard on us working class people who really love the hobby, but can't afford to play in the big leagues.
I understand that I will probably be accused of whining, but this is not just me talking. I have heard these same complaints from many people over the years and I guess maybe I am the first to bring it here, but I really do believe these are some legitimate issues.
I may be wrong, by I have a very strong feeling that these are just a couple of the reasons why this particular forum has croaked. It seems the registry belongs to the rich now, so the rest of us just meander around in the fog and grab a good one once in a while, but are afraid to share it with others out of fear that they might not be able to get the next one.
I've had my say, so let's hear what you think....
Have at it.
Cheers !
edited for spelling, of couse.
Now don't get me wrong, I know that there are a few very good YN collectors doing excellent things in the hobby, and business end of numismatics, but in many cases, it is quite obvious that daddy is playing the kid card all by himself.
We all tend to give special consideration to a young collector who is just coming into his own, or just getting started in numismatics for the fun of it, or even for a school project, knowing that we may be able to have some positive influence on his, or her, development in the hobby. So when someone takes advantage of this and uses it just to get a better deal, it hurts all of us. It tends to jade us to the point that we get irritated whenever someone claims to be a YN, unless we know for a fact that they actually are. It also hurts the real YNs because of this reaction, when it is not deserved.
This is especially evident in a number of Registry Sets that are clearly noted as belonging to a YN, yet all dealings are with daddy. Especially when large sums of money are being slung around and we know that this is no YN set. Then when that sets gets to number one, it is pulled a short time later leaving the "Legacy" behind. How does this benefit the hobby, or the Registry? How does this teach youth anything other than maybe, how to use daddy's money to show that you are better than everyone else. I just don't get it, but then, I was, and never will be rich, or spoiled.
#2 A set is put up, and within a matter of months, or even weeks, the set is built up to number one, after shelling out a great deal of money to do so. Then, the icing on the cake is when, after making the Top Spot, the set is pulled and sold off within a few more months, again, leaving those of us who have struggled for many years to build a number one set, just sitting there looking at number two, with no chance of ever being able to afford the coin needed to move back up.
It sure does make it hard on us working class people who really love the hobby, but can't afford to play in the big leagues.
I understand that I will probably be accused of whining, but this is not just me talking. I have heard these same complaints from many people over the years and I guess maybe I am the first to bring it here, but I really do believe these are some legitimate issues.
I may be wrong, by I have a very strong feeling that these are just a couple of the reasons why this particular forum has croaked. It seems the registry belongs to the rich now, so the rest of us just meander around in the fog and grab a good one once in a while, but are afraid to share it with others out of fear that they might not be able to get the next one.
I've had my say, so let's hear what you think....
Have at it.
Cheers !
edited for spelling, of couse.
0
Comments
Assuming you are referring to REAL PCGS Set Registry collections listed as owned by YN, why not give us a SPECIFIC example which now shows the "legacy" sitting in a #1 all time listing with a YN. Tell us the Set Registry denomination and set involved so we can all go and check it out. Thanks. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
<< <i>Assuming you are referring to REAL PCGS Set Registry collections listed as owned by YN, why not give us a SPECIFIC example which now shows the "legacy" sitting in a #1 all time listing with a YN. Tell us the Set Registry denomination and set involved so we can all go and check it out. >>
That's not my style. But I will elaborate...
I am complaining about sets that are built and listed by adults, claiming that it is their 'YN' kid's set, and that they are trying to help them out.
A typical YN set starts out slow and builds slowly over time. Sometimes they lose interest and move on, so the set sits idle or is pulled. Sometimes however, they continue to grow as they learn, and become enamored with the hobby. Very rarely, do these sets build at an accelerated pace, acquiring very high end, high priced coins, without the assistance of another party (Dad).
There are lots of sets that are dedicated to our kids. I too, have sets for my kids birthdays, but they are not listed as YN because they are not being built by a YN, just dedicated to a the offspring of numismatist.
A YN is a Young Numismatist, not a numismatist who happens to have a kid.
This is the distinction that I am attempting to make and I hope I have made it a little clearer.
Cheers !
<< <i>I understand what numisme means with a lot of YN sets, but I must admire the way Justin Spivack built his sets. Of course he had his fathers guidance to some extent, but Justin searched through tons of coins to find the ones for his sets. As a teenager he was able to develop fantastic grading skills through hours of hard work. Now he is in college and probably a bit distracted from coins, but I am sure he will be back some day and became a great addition to the hobby. It is really a great example of the positive side of the YN program. >>
<< <i> I know that there are a few very good YN collectors doing excellent things in the hobby, and business end of numismatics >>
...in my original post.
I'm sure there are any number of excellent YN's here, and I applaud them. They are not the issue.
Cheers !
All that said, I think if we want to attract the next round of geeky and serious coin collectors that even YN sets that are mostly the work of parents is a fantastic thing. Hopefully the bug will stick!
CC
I just wasn't thinking that one through!
That's one of the reasons I have some sets listed as YN and some not.
The ones that aren't, are fully MY sets. The ones that are listed as YN are my son's. I help, but he has 100% "control" over whether to get a coin or not, or to keep it once we receive it.
I am the wallet and the guidance. Even doing that may break the barrier that you feel should be there, but that is how we do it.
Some of the coins in MY collection are for him, but I didn't look to him for the purchase at all (my/our 55DDO Lincoln is a prime example, as are our MASS 1/2 cent and cent). Those were bought because I wanted them and we keep them because I want to. I do let him look at them and give feedback on them.
Now, the Silver Roosevelt set......that is 100% his. I do limit the cost of the coins that go into it (I won't pay $700+ for one, but I will buy him any that he likes for the set that are between $50-$150 for a nice MS66FB.). I may find the coin by surfing ebay/TT or maybe on the BST, but I always let him make the choice to buy it or not. And he has turned down many from the pictures.
It's my way to enjoy the hobby with him. Not a way to elicit anything else though. We will never be get his sets to be #1 but we are enjoying them together and, he does play sports so he is a bit competitive, he likes the competition aspect.
I think the only set I have under him that he didn't really have anything to do with, initially, is his birthyear set. 2002. He was too young at the time I started it to have input. Now, however, he does have input on any potential upgrades. Though, the upgrades are so minor in grade change, but so large in money cost, that we don't do much there. I put the money into his college fund instead.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I have no problem with your activities, and in fact, that is the way I believe it was probably meant to be when they instituted the YN designation.
Helping, guiding, encouraging them in their endevors, and even contributing funds to the cause are all OK.
As long as you are not building sets, calling them his, marking them as YN and using him, or references to him, as a means of getting me, or anyone, to sell you a coin that normally I/they would not otherwise consider selling, or selling one at a reduced price because it is for him.
Carry on, and maybe your enthusiasm will continue on with him.
Good luck and happy hunting.
Cheers !
I couldn't find the "crying towel" icon to give you.
I sure would like to know about all of these deals that are given to YNs, no one has given me any deals. I do not even enter into the YN "give aways".
And yes, on an expensive coin, dad wants to look at the transaction so that he knows no one is taking advantage of me.
My set(s), some may be in the either 1st, 2nd or 3rd, but in reality they are no where near the top collections. I know of several collectors that don’t participate in the Registries and I can only dream about the coins they have. One collector that we get some of his spares from have graded MS68 when we sent them in to PCGS. Some coins are cherrypicked off of eBay.
It helps when you only collect "modern crap" a lot of the old collectors turn their noses up in the air when the word "Kennedy" is mentioned so most are not competing with me for examples.
Just so you stop crying, when I turn 18, I will take down the "YN" marker. Why we are at it, are their any other groups you don't like
Caleb, I'm sorry I ruffled your feathers, but if you take the time to re-read my posts, you will see that I am not talking to, or about, you, or anyone like you. I have stated from the beginning that I am not talking about Young collectors. I am only complaining about an adult collector who claims that a set belongs to a YN.
Please review my posts, and I am sure you will see that you have misjudged the situation.
Again, I am sorry if I offended you, or any other young collector, as that was never my intention.
I vehemently support you, and all true YNs who truly love this hobby as much as I do.
Cheers !
edited for spelling again...
Sonoranmonsoon: As Justin's Dad, I want to thank you for that kind post. Justin started collecting coins around the age of -7-. He would join me whenever possible to attend the major coin shows and auctions at FUN, Baltimore and Long Beach. He would have no problem screening auction coins with me all day long and even attend live auctions sometimes that spanned the entire evening. It was clear from the beginning that Justin enjoyed collecting coins as I never had to force him to go here or there ... he could literally sit at a Heritage lot screening table for 5 or 6 hours straight and enjoy looking at every coin he saw (except for perhaps the horribly overgraded ones as he learned the skill of coin grading through examining thousands of slabbed coins over the years). His passion was always for monster toned coins or amazing errors as a kid. But, Justin also always loved American history and studying our past Presidents. When the US Mint announced the Presidential Dollar series around 2007, Justin set out to build the greatest collection of business strike coins he could with one basic rule ... that he would find the coins for his collection through his own coin screening so that virtually all of the coins would be "homemade". I agreed to put up the $1,100 to buy the first fresh sealed $1,000 "brick" of coins so long as after he screened the coins he would roll up the "reject" coins and return them to the bank to get me back the $975 or whatever amount was the "rejects". The $975 could then be used to buy the next sealed $1,100 brick to screen and so on. Whatever the best coin graded from Justin's personal effort would go to his personal collection. If there was a second coin found in the same pop top grade from the searches, it would be sold to help cover the costs of the bricks (i.e. the $100/brick added fee to buy the sealed bricks, the lost grading fees on coins that failed to achieve the desired grade, etc., etc.)
During a (4) year span from the age of about 15-19, Justin, along with his sister Lauren, personally screened well over a hundred thousand business strike Presidential Dollars to build, homemade, the former #1 set of business strike Presidential Dollars. Justin was awarded the "Young Numismatist of the Year" award from PCGS in 2009 for his Pres. $1 registry set. Justin's efforts were also recognized in Eric Jordan's book "Modern Commemorative Coins, Invest Today Profit Tomorrow" at pages 107-108. Late last Summer, as Justin was heading off to his second year at Univ of CA, Santa Barbara (where he is a Chemistry major), Justin entered into a "private treaty" with Sonoranmonsoon for Sonoranmonsoon's acquisition of Justin's most prized specimens from his collection. I know that was a very difficult decision for Justin to make, but the reality was that it was getting harder and harder for him to screen these coins while taking a full load of science based classes at UCSB. I know Justin was honored to have his special coins join Sonoranmonsoon's amazing dollar collection. Although Justin is a Chemistry major, (at this moment) he intends to dedicate his life to numismatics in some manner or another after he finishes with college. Would Mom and I prefer that he go to Med school first ... probably. But, he tells us that he wants to be involved with numismatics as his top career choice.
Well, ehough of this "proud Dad' talk ... back to the thread on what we all hate.
Wondercoin
Wondercoin
Thank You wondercoin, and You're welcome...
<< <i>
I couldn't find the "crying towel" icon to give you.
I sure would like to know about all of these deals that are given to YNs, no one has given me any deals. >>
Did I not give you a great deal on the 1968-S DDR-002 and DDR-008 coins?
Man oh man! The kids these days!
The name is LEE!
a waitress bends over to pick up a quarter i dropped and is wear'n those panty things...
"kept it fun with coins related i hope as it sure is one way to register fun with coins"
<< <i> Did I not give you a great deal on the 1968-S DDR-002 and DDR-008 coins?
Man oh man! The kids these days! >>
Lee,
Yes you gave me two great varieties at a very good price. But it wasn't because I am a YN, you gave Phil the same deal and he is an "old fart"
Caleb
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.