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What is Lawful Money

coinnerdcoinnerd Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
in Precious Metals
Older FRNs have a redeemable clause on them ' Redeemable in Lawful Money at the treasury or any Federal Reserve Bank.' 1928 series notes were redeemable in gold, but Roosevelt took care of that for the Fed.
What is Lawful Money now. I know it was silver coin until 1969. I'm sure it's changed but to what?

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Comments

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,792 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It means it can be used to pay public debt (taxes) and can be exchaned at any Federal Reserve Bank for a different one or for $20 in different denominations or coins. Lawful money is any currency/coinage created with the blessing of Congress. An example of what "they" consider to be unlawful money would be the Liberty Dollars.

    Take it to the Reserve Bank and tell them you want four $5 coins. image

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    Derry B thinkin' right.

    "Take it to the Reserve Bank and tell them you want four $5 coins."

    Sounds like a good project for Nibanny's visit to the Fed Reserve Bank. Heck, give them a $20 and a $5 and ask for a $25 coin...maybe one of those half eagles or if worst case scenario, one of those plats should do good (be sure and have a couple or three bens in the pocket just incase it works).
  • jmbjmb Posts: 594 ✭✭✭
    According to the Constitution only gold and silver are money. image
  • GBurger717GBurger717 Posts: 575
    Does the Constitution still exist?

    I know the answer but with everything going on it sure dont seem like it!!!! image
  • coinnerdcoinnerd Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    The definition of a dollar was written into law shortly after the adoption of the constitution. The standard didn't change that I know of. This was still law in the 60s. The US mint still makes a standard $ in the form of the commemorative series (worth about 24 FRN $1 notes). Has the law actually been changed in the last 40 years to make something other than .76 ounces of silver a legal US dollar?
  • coinnerdcoinnerd Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    The first small size FRNs contained the redeemable in gold clause to help legitimize the FR. Roosevelt (illegally) stoped redemption in gold and the FRN clause changed to keep it legit and accepted.
    image

    This second clause lasted into the 60s

    image

    Currently all pretext that FRNs are not US money were dropped.
    image

    These are why the founders made gold and silver coin money. you couldn't redeem this for full value ever.
    image
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 28,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    them c notes look really neat image
  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,307 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As a Canadian, I am really amazed at how little the current US follows its Constitution and moreso, how no one is upset at this.

    I was born in 1959 and as a kid growing up, we here in Canada when viewing American events on TV or other media, holidays and other such events, we were always aware of the strong pride the US citizens had for their history and especially the Constitution, and especially what it stands for.

    I'm absolutely shocked that 90% of today's US population doesn't give a hoot (or probably doesn't know) about the Constitution.

    The issues of the British government that brought about the rebellion of 1776 is very similar to today's US government.

    Just ask Ron Paul.
    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    When you sell something to the Pawn Stars you get "cash money." image
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,792 ✭✭✭✭✭
    With the stroke of a pen, President Kennedy declared that the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank would soon be out of business. Executive order 11110, created new currency, UNITED STATES NOTES. Within six months the president was dead and the whole "do away with the FED RESERVE and issue new money" just went away. Poof, just like Kaiser SoSay.

    image

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • StaircoinsStaircoins Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭
    "Lawful Money" would mean anything issued directly by the Treasury rather than the Fed.

    This could be US Notes, specie, T-notes, Treasury bonds, etc.

    Here's an example:
    image
  • StaircoinsStaircoins Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭

    (Didn't see derryb's reply while I was typing)

    US Notes had been around since 1928 though.

    Not a good pic, but one I used to own and regret selling ...
    image
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,792 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>US Notes had been around since 1928 though. >>


    JFK attempted to reintroduce them and as debt free money. When a Federal Reserve Note is created, more debt is created. JFK argued that the US should rid itself of the interest charging FED RESERVE bank. Boy was he in for a surprise!

    The U.S. Government Still Has The Power To Issue Debt-Free Money

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • jmbjmb Posts: 594 ✭✭✭
    US Notes (Legal Tender) have been around since 1862. The prior year, 1861, they were called Demand Notes.

    Here's my 1862 $10 US Note. Lincoln was still alive while this was circulating.

    image
  • StaircoinsStaircoins Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭


    << <i>US Notes (Legal Tender) have been around since 1862. >>


    Good point! I should not have forgotten about large size notes! image




    << <i>JFK attempted to reintroduce them and as debt free money. >>


    Yes, but by that point it was too late for his attempt to have any chance at success. The economy was expanding at an increasing rate, we'd won WWII and and experienced the post-war boom of 1946-1960, all financed with debt.

    "What, me worry?" was part of the American psyche.

    It still is, unfortunately.



  • coinnerdcoinnerd Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    Even the 1862 note says the United States promise to pay $10 to bearer. This clause implies that this is note is not money only a representation of money. Even the red seal duces say promise to pay to the bearer two dollars. If ithe paper is money why the promise to pay and pay what.
    The word NOTE on on the bills implies a loan. When you sign a note at the bank you promise to pay back. The Fed promises to pay back squat. As soon as the perseption breaks down FRNs will be as worthless as the contenental currency and broken bank notes of the early 19th century. Many here have said as much so this is nothing new.

    As someones sig line states "only gold is money"

    I'll take 100 standard silver dollars for my old $100 FRN as promised please.

    JMB Really nice 1862 $10 by the way.
  • greatnortherncoingreatnortherncoin Posts: 412
    in god u trust in debt u will be
    dont send sheep to kill a wolf...
  • EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    United States Notes - the red seal notes are the remnants of the Civil War debt. They were absorbed into the Federal Reserve in the 1980's.

    Lawful money is anything the government says it is.


    In fact "money" is anything we, as a people agree it is. Some people agreed in the past that cowrie shells are money. Some civilizations thought beaver pelts or tobacco was money. Many posters here want gold to be money. for 2300 years it was. No longer though. If we all agree, then it works. Gold was money in the US (with a break from 1861-1879) until 1933 because the government said it was. Then it said it wasn't (except if you were another country). Sure, this was forced on us, but that's history. To get back to where money is gold, everyone would have to agree that it is indeed money. Right now only 5% of the US and .02% of the world think it is money.

    As far as the Constitution goes, any lawyer will say that it is foundation from which laws are formed, not a document of laws.
    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
  • InYHWHWeTrustInYHWHWeTrust Posts: 1,448 ✭✭✭
    US gov't = we the people
    money = subjective, whatever 'we the people' decide it is (paraphrase Ludwig von Mises)
    Do your best to avoid circular arguments, as it will help you reason better, because better reasoning is often a result of avoiding circular arguments.
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