Rarity of the 1889-CC Morgan Dollar?
giorgio11
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We all know that the 1889-CC Morgan dollar is rare and in high demand in virtually any grade. The recorded mintage is low at 350,000 coins, but the 1885-CC (far more common, and survived in great gobs in the Treasury holdings of the 1960s) has a mintage of 228,000.
The greater rarity of the 1889-CC is apparently explained by an extremely low overall survival rate, despite the existence of a handful of really nice high Mint State examples, sometimes Prooflike to boot. Rusty Goe writes in The Mint on Carson Street that between 70% and 95% of the original mintage of 350,000 1889-CC silver dollars was later melted. Anybody know why? Goe estimates today that only 11,000 to 16,000 pieces survive in all grades, of which 4,000 to 7,500 are Mint State.
I wonder if anyone has ever researched this further or knows any added information? Thanks and
Best Regards,
George
The greater rarity of the 1889-CC is apparently explained by an extremely low overall survival rate, despite the existence of a handful of really nice high Mint State examples, sometimes Prooflike to boot. Rusty Goe writes in The Mint on Carson Street that between 70% and 95% of the original mintage of 350,000 1889-CC silver dollars was later melted. Anybody know why? Goe estimates today that only 11,000 to 16,000 pieces survive in all grades, of which 4,000 to 7,500 are Mint State.
I wonder if anyone has ever researched this further or knows any added information? Thanks and
Best Regards,
George
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I hope someone has an answer.
Bob
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So experts, what die pair is this?
1889-CC attribution page.
Also, I notice that the obverse die I have seen most often, with a die line/die scratch "between the cotton and wheat leaves" is VAM-5, with comment "VAM-5 is far and away the most common pair used." Thanks and
Best Regards,
George
<< <i>The coins were minted in the geographic area (West) that tended to prefer hard currency over paper; this meant they saw use for a long time. The recession of 1892-93 was still a couple of years away when they came out, so they had some time to get used instead of sitting in the vaults. This, plus the low mintage, suggests to me how so few Mint State examples could have survived. The low mintage and multiple known die pairs (7 so far) suggest why nearly all mint state examples that do survive have some degree of reflective surfaces. (A mint state coin with only frosty surfaces is a warning flag to me for a counterfeit or an added mint mark.) Returning heavily worn coins for melting was a regular policy of banks back then, so I'd expect a low survival rate for 1889-CC. >>
While I don't disagree with any of your points here, your argument seems to suggest that most of the 1889-CC mintage was indeed released.
Do you have any knowledge/verification that that is so? Isn't is just as likely that some were not released and later melted? Thanks again Dennis H, and
Best Regards,
George
I would disagree with the entire premise that 89-CC dollars are rare. PCGS & NGC show combined pops of over 8000 examples (in all grades) with plenty of mint state coins available for collectors. In fact, nearly every major auction has numerous examples ranging from G4 to MS grades including DMPL's.
<< <i><<< We all know that the 1889-CC Morgan dollar is rare and in high demand in virtually any grade >>>
I would disagree with the entire premise that 89-CC dollars are rare. PCGS & NGC show combined pops of over 8000 examples (in all grades) with plenty of mint state coins available for collectors. In fact, nearly every major auction has numerous examples ranging from G4 to MS grades including DMPL's. >>
Well, Brasher doubloons they ain't. But I would submit that a large percentage, who knows how many, of those certified coins are duplicates, and that the number of surviving examples of the 1889-CC in any particular grade is far smaller than the number of collectors who want them. Does this make them 1804 dollars? No. But I suspect there are at a minimum several thousand serious collectors of Mint State Morgan dollars, many of whom don't play the Registry Set game. I don't have data for any of this, just my suspicions from being in the coin business for a long, long time. And yes, there are some mighty nice DMPLs around of the date.
Best Regards,
George
Since 10's of thousands more people collect Morgans than say Seated Quarters, "rare" dates like the 89-cc will command huge premiums.
My vest pocket dealer friend once had three in stock, and at any given moment usually has at least one on hand.
But they sell quick, so he never turns one down when he can buy it right.
Not rare, scarce in some cases. Probably considered rare in uncirculated condition. That would make it a condition rarity, I assume.
In the literal sense, "rare" is certainly too strong a word and I stand corrected. I am, however, trying to find out if anyone knows anything about how many may have been melted later on, something that of course probably happened to many other issues as well due to the Pittman Act meltings.
Pittman Act. Those melted under the Act were in the Treasury's vaults as I understand. So, I'm in the
crowd that most, if not all, were released into circulation in the day. I've had probably a couple of
dozen or so as a small time collector in the past 50 years. None above XF as I just get them from
other collectors when they sell off.
They are not scarce, rare or any such adjective by themselves. But, yes they are a Carson City and
in demand. I certainly can remember that there were several CC's that were harder to find: 85, 81,
82, 83, and 84 were all harder to find. 79, 93 and 92 are still harder to find in my opinion. Then
came the release of the GSA and that changed for 81,2,3,4 and 85 as those became common (although
not cheap!).
bob