Which is considered better in value?

Foo3112

With all your awesome posts/scans with packs with stars on top, kinda was wondering...

What is actually "valued" more you think?

A single card valued labeled PSA 10 or a cello pack with that particular card on top also graded at a 10?

I noticed PSA doesn't have anything listed for cello or racks as far as I can tell.

Marc

MattyC

I don't think there is any clean, hard and fast rule that can be applied to all cases. In the case of many key star cards, a PSA 10 pack does not exist.

As a buyer of both high-grade star cards and star-top cellos, I would guess that PSA 10s of key cards such as Schmidt RC, Ryan RC, Henderson RC, etc., will sell for more than the cello pack with the same card on top in a PSA 10 holder. I suppose part of the reason for this is there are more buyers for the single card; I believe the market for the cello is probably much thinner than that for the pack. I just can't imagine ever paying 7K+ for a Henderson PSA 10 cello or Ozzie Smith PSA 10 cello, yet that is what the single cards would go for at auction. Imagine a 76 Brett PSA 10 or a Ryan RC in PSA 10. Those cards would sell, I think, for much more than a PSA 10 cello with the same card on top.

Examining PSA 9 cases however, leads to different conclusions. Take, for example, a PSA 9 Brett RC. It sells on avg for $580. That is exactly what I paid for a PSA 9 Brett RC cello. There was a bidder right under me on that pack, and it later sold for $540. So in that case the PSA 9s are comparable. However, the cello in PSA 9 is only a pop 10 item, whereas there are far more PSA 9 single cards. It thus stands to reason that were the pops identical, the cello value would come down significantly; the inference again being a thinner market for the cello-- fewer collectors and thus a much smaller supply of the cello as opposed to the card satisfies demand at the $580ish value. Sure the cellos are much rarer, but there are also fewer guys collecting them.

When it comes to very special cellos, take the Brett/Yount 75 in PSA 9, two sold for about the same price in 2011 and that was much more than buying both cards separately in PSA 9 holders.

Bottom line, I don't think there's enough history/precedent in cello sales data to state a firm correlation. Also there is a great disparity in both the supply and demand of cellos and their single card counterparts.

Edit to add:

Cellos with stars on top are unique items and a special niche in the market right now. Looking ahead, if their popularity spreads to more and more collectors, that increased demand will be brought to bear on a very limited supply-- and in that case we will likely see a big rise in their prices. If that scenario plays out, who knows? What may limit that spread of interest/popularity is just how rare they are. Guys late to the party may feel that obtaining star cellos is too daunting a task to even embark upon in the first place. Contrast that to regular cards, which almost anyone can collect, and thus aspire to own (and throw bids on) higher-grade examples. Anyone in the single card game can own a nice PSA 8 or 9, and thus lust after a worthy (or in many cases not even worthy) PSA 10. Yet the cellos' rarity may actually work against them, in terms of bringing widespread popularity. They might be so rare many collectors don't even bother to jump in the waters in the first place.

Only time will tell. But publicized sales of seminal packs are what is needed in the short term to bring attention to the cellos. There are a few out there that are really special that have yet to hit the market. For example there are 2 Henderson Top/Bottom, a Ryan RC, some Schmidt RCs, a Mantle 60 and 67, and those have all yet to be offered for sale/auction. If they were and the market saw a splashy sale, it would bring bigger fish into the cello market. Even the two extant 78 Murray/Molitors are locked up by cello collectors and will likely never hit market to draw attention.

One of the best cellos possible in the "advertising on wrapper" era is the Brett/Yount. One of the two was snapped up almost the instant it went on ebay. The other I purchased in a private sale. Again, were these big auctions on ebay by a seller with a large clientele or in a catalogue auction, attention would be drawn and the demand/supply clash might have led to a big surge in prices.

fkw

best value??

the same card in a PSA8

NickM

Also, a PSA 9 pack could have a card that is very OC or MC on top. There would likely be a substantial difference in the price of 2 cellos with identical grades if one had the star with PSA 9-quality centering and the other had the star with 90-10.

Nick

Foo3112

Thanks for all that info Matty. So it seems like its very unpredictable. One thing seems to be for sure - Rare cellos with maybe a Henderson both bottom and top or Yount and Brett on each side do sell very well.

I have however seen a cello with a star on top with a grade of a 10. They are out there.

MattyC

NickM brings up a very important point: the card on top of the cello has to be well-centered with no big issues for the comparison to even be made.

I'm all over key star card cellos with a centered example on top, but not at all into one that's OC, even if it is by some chance a PSA 9. A PSA 10 pack would likely never have a poorly centered top card though, as that is considered when assigning the grade.

MattyC

And yes, the very special ones with one or more key cards that are centered and PSA 9 or 10 will always command legit money-- because even though the market is thin as compared to regular cards, the supply is equally thin (or much thinner) so the prices are high.

For me, as a collector/buyer, I will always prefer the rarer item. So when it comes to say a Brett RC in PSA 9 versus a PSA 9 cello with a centered Brett RC on top, I'll go with the latter-- of which there are only 10 as compared to much more of the PSA 9 card. I look at say the Henderson RC the same way. Anyone can have a nice PSA 9 Henderson RC. But there are far fewer 9-level-centered examples on top of a PSA 9 cello pack, so I'd go with that. Of course the PSA 10 single Henderson would trump them all. Same with say the 60 and 67 Mantle cello tops. Say those packs grade PSA 8. I'd take them over the card in PSA 8 personally, because of rarity. Just how I collect though.

grote15

For star packs/cards, I'd say the PSA 10 card, imo...I don't believe the premium for a PSA 10 graded pack, as nice as it is, approaches the premium for a PSA 10 high value card, as pack collectors are more concerned with authenticity than grade, for the most part, at least..

grote15

With regard to the scarcity of graded packs vs cards, as in the example of the 75 Brett card vs the 75 graded cello with Brett on top, you must also take into account that much fewer packs are submitted than cards, as pack grading itself is relatively new in concept compared to card grading, and there are more collectors out there who have these star packs but just don't want to bother with the process of sending them in to be graded.

JoeBanzai

You would have to be more specific to get the best answer. I would assume that the older the card the harder it would be to find the cello with said star player on top. Cellos are also being ripped so the amount of cellos is getting smaller and the number of those star cards are growing. I am also assuming that the player on top of the cello would be well centered.

Supply is only half the equation, and cellos don't seem to be collected as much as single cards, but I would predict that as time goes by the unopened material will become more valuable. Especially in high grade if not exactly PSA 10. I have every card of the player I collect, but have only been able to the '75 regular and mini in cello packs with him on top.

Joe