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I know there's a "talk-down-the-price" element in collecting, but...
D
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Are there some dealers or people that you will pay the extra dollar to buy a coin from? Out of respect or understanding that they need to make money to stay open? Is this dealer someone that has to work hard for you, or already works hard for you?
Personally I have one or two favorite dealers and I don't mind spending the extra dollar, or foregoing the price-debate. I know that I'm getting a deal that I should, and if I feel it's too expensive then I'll just say I'm not interested. If the dealer wants to give it to me for less the can give me a lower number.
-D
Personally I have one or two favorite dealers and I don't mind spending the extra dollar, or foregoing the price-debate. I know that I'm getting a deal that I should, and if I feel it's too expensive then I'll just say I'm not interested. If the dealer wants to give it to me for less the can give me a lower number.
-D
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
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Let's say I want Doug Winter to get me an 1861-D dollar in a PCGS AU-55 holder and we agree on a price of $26,000, he obtains the coin but I say hey Doug I'm such a good customer you should knock $1,000 off the price that is not an ethical way to do business.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
IMO, any collector who squeezes out every dollar from any transaction will never get offered the good stuff, the stuff that never makes it to price lists, the stuff that is on the back table at coins shows, the stuff the gets upgrades and gold stickers, etc.
There is an art to knowing how, when and when not to negotiate as a collector. Those who master this art are more likely to end up with the good stuff than the penny-pincher, sport-chiseler, and cheapskate.
Building relationships with dealers is based on mutual respect and trust, not an extra 3% off.
<< <i>I would think giving a good dealer your repeat business and recommending him to other collectors would be sufficient to show your appreciation. >>
Normally you're right except in certain situations like what I discussed above. I've heard numerous times from dealers who had a want list from collectors where they go out and obtain an expensive coin for a client where the client backed out of the deal. These coins were all slabbed and nice coins, I remember one dealer who had an 1856 flying eagle cent in his inventory for over a year because a client backed out.
If it's generic, found 10X every show and easily priced, chisel away.
If you're getting first shot at something truly rare, a tip is in order.
<< <i>I was expecting a different direction in this thread, based on the title.
IMO, any collector who squeezes out every dollar from any transaction will never get offered the good stuff, the stuff that never makes it to price lists, the stuff that is on the back table at coins shows, the stuff the gets upgrades and gold stickers, etc.
There is an art to knowing how, when and when not to negotiate as a collector. Those who master this art are more likely to end up with the good stuff than the penny-pincher, sport-chiseler, and cheapskate.
Building relationships with dealers is based on mutual respect and trust, not an extra 3% off. >>
It is also based on finding out how much he will pay when buying from you.
<< <i>It is also based on finding out how much he will pay when buying from you. >>
Exactly. If the dealer chisels you down if and when you need to sell - or trade - a coin than, unless it is a special order as mentioned above - then negotiate away.
Personally - I find the coin I like and know what I want to spend. When I find it I look at the price and ask 'what can you do that for?' If I like his answer I buy it. If not I move on. I also don't buy $20,000 coins so a $5 discount usually is enough - I admit I am easy...
I just sold 1K in coins to a dealer. Total bill was 1015.00....he did not have the 15 with him........I let him walk.
NJCC
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
<< <i>I was expecting a different direction in this thread, based on the title.
IMO, any collector who squeezes out every dollar from any transaction will never get offered the good stuff, the stuff that never makes it to price lists, the stuff that is on the back table at coins shows, the stuff the gets upgrades and gold stickers, etc.
There is an art to knowing how, when and when not to negotiate as a collector. Those who master this art are more likely to end up with the good stuff than the penny-pincher, sport-chiseler, and cheapskate.
Building relationships with dealers is based on mutual respect and trust, not an extra 3% off. >>
Totally agree.
There's a ton of cheapskates in this hobby and I'm glad I'm not a dealer when, at a coin show, I overhear a collector try to haggle a dollar off of a $25 item.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
specialize in an esoteric field and don't have the time to traipse around Europe, for example,
and monitor thousands of auctions, and cultivate obscure connections to dig into the dusty
inventories of ancient estates, but a particular dealer or two can bring it all together for you,
then certainly I can understand not begrudging the occasional strong dollar for his services.
I knew it would happen.
Do you feel that dealers pay premo $$ when you sell them a coin?
odds are he is pulling a grey or looking up what the CCE has it priced at- then makes you an offer 20 - 30 back of what you were hoping to get.
It's a rat race- and the rat must eat.
hamster7
<< <i>I was expecting a different direction in this thread, based on the title.
IMO, any collector who squeezes out every dollar from any transaction will never get offered the good stuff, the stuff that never makes it to price lists, the stuff that is on the back table at coins shows, the stuff the gets upgrades and gold stickers, etc.
There is an art to knowing how, when and when not to negotiate as a collector. Those who master this art are more likely to end up with the good stuff than the penny-pincher, sport-chiseler, and cheapskate.
Building relationships with dealers is based on mutual respect and trust, not an extra 3% off. >>
Amen!
The chiselers often never know the stuff they didn't get shown because the non-chiselers got it first!
<< <i>
<< <i>I was expecting a different direction in this thread, based on the title.
IMO, any collector who squeezes out every dollar from any transaction will never get offered the good stuff, the stuff that never makes it to price lists, the stuff that is on the back table at coins shows, the stuff the gets upgrades and gold stickers, etc.
There is an art to knowing how, when and when not to negotiate as a collector. Those who master this art are more likely to end up with the good stuff than the penny-pincher, sport-chiseler, and cheapskate.
Building relationships with dealers is based on mutual respect and trust, not an extra 3% off. >>
Amen!
The chiselers often never know the stuff they didn't get shown because the non-chiselers got it first! >>
This is a great thread. When a dealer shows me a coin, I ask for his best price and then I play or pass. I rarely make a counter offer. Is this considered chiseling? I agree that the PITA collectors rarely get offered the special high demand coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I could not agree more or have said it better than RYK and Lakes. >>
Ditto.
There have been times when I've gone either way. It depends on the coin, and on the dealer. Trust IS paramount.
The relationship works both ways. While a dealer may never show me the best stuff because I don't like his prices, I may buy twice as much from the guy who can tolerate the way I shop.
It's a hobby, folks. The customer owes nobody in the bourse a living. I like to have a conversation or two before I ever buy. The relationship has to come first, along with some kind of meeting of the minds. I generally do business with people I can consider friends.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>I could not agree more or have said it better than RYK and Lakes. >>
Ditto. >>
Double ditto.
Many of the nicest coins in my collection were "saved" for me by dealers I established a relationship with. These coins were not on display in the dealer's cases, but set aside on the back table. They knew that I would pay strong prices for strong coins and that I appreciated the first shot. They also knew that I tend to be the first in line at the opening of the show, so if they didn't make the sale to me, they still had the rest of the show to sell the coins I declined to buy.
There is another side to the relationship as well. If I decided to sell a coin, the dealer I bought it from usually appreciated the first shot at buying it back - or making it part of another deal.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
<< <i>I will ask for the best price and most always pass or play, once in a while I will make a counteroffer. >>
If you ask for a best price and then counteroffer I would caution you that you could be buring bridges or at least will be leaving with a frosty impression.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>
<< <i>I will ask for the best price and most always pass or play, once in a while I will make a counteroffer. >>
If you ask for a best price and then counteroffer I would caution you that you could be bur[n]ing bridges or at least will be leaving with a frosty impression. >>
Yep. If you ask for a 'best price', it's take it or leave it time.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>Yep. If you ask for a 'best price', it's take it or leave it time. >>
In general this is true, but I've also seen circumstances where I asked for a best price, it was too high and I passed, then had the dealer come back
and say something like 'where do you want to be on the coin?' or 'are we close?'......so he either didn't really give me his best price, or he is motivated to
move it. Each situation and dealer is different, so it's hard to make general statements.
<< <i>
<< <i>Yep. If you ask for a 'best price', it's take it or leave it time. >>
In general this is true, but I've also seen circumstances where I asked for a best price, it was too high and I passed, then had the dealer come back
and say something like 'where do you want to be on the coin?' or 'are we close?'......so he either didn't really give me his best price, or he is motivated to
move it. Each situation and dealer is different, so it's hard to make general statements. >>
In this case, the dealer initiated the counter offer so you passing at the onset was the right move and he is not offended.
As stated several times, if you are looking for quality material, throw out the guide and pay up or you will not get the phone call the next time.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
I do not second-guess myself.I just figure that I wasn't meant to have the coin for my collection.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I was expecting a different direction in this thread, based on the title.
IMO, any collector who squeezes out every dollar from any transaction will never get offered the good stuff, the stuff that never makes it to price lists, the stuff that is on the back table at coins shows, the stuff the gets upgrades and gold stickers, etc.
There is an art to knowing how, when and when not to negotiate as a collector. Those who master this art are more likely to end up with the good stuff than the penny-pincher, sport-chiseler, and cheapskate.
Building relationships with dealers is based on mutual respect and trust, not an extra 3% off. >>
Amen!
The chiselers often never know the stuff they didn't get shown because the non-chiselers got it first! >>
This is a great thread. When a dealer shows me a coin, I ask for his best price and then I play or pass. I rarely make a counter offer. Is this considered chiseling? I agree that the PITA collectors rarely get offered the special high demand coins. >>
If you took 9 out of 10 at the asked price and "negotiated" on the 10th I don't think anybody would be upset.
If you passed on 9 out of 10 and tried to "chisel" on the 10th I don't think you would get anywhere.