UPDATE -- Express Mail Missed its Deadline by 6 Hours -- Does PCGS Get & Give Shipping Refunds??

MsMorrisine · January 21, 2012 8:21AM

Express Mail missed its deadline today by a little over 6 hours.

It's guaranteed delivery or you get your money back.

It's also not the first time it's happened to me. I can recall at least 3 recent ones that missed the deadline.

Q::

Does PCGS seek, receive, and refund shipping fees in the case of missed deadlines???

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

UPDATE:

The local PO has edited the scan information and LIED about delivery time!!!

Express Mail®
Delivered
January 21, 2012, 11:56 am -- delivered past 6 pm --- out right falsification of records!

Arrival at Post Office
January 21, 2012, 10:54 am -- showed "Sorting Complete" @ 12:50pm && "out for delivery" @ 1pm

Processed through USPS Sort Facility
January 21, 2012, 8:01 am
LINTHICUM HEIGHTS, MD 21090

Electronic Shipping Info Received
January 21, 2012

Depart USPS Sort Facility
January 20, 2012
SANTA ANA, CA 92799

Processed through USPS Sort Facility
January 20, 2012, 4:23 pm
SANTA ANA, CA 92799

STONE · January 21, 2012 8:33AM

I think PCGS can just elect to keep the money if they so choose without any recourse on your behalf!

I've had 2-3 more Express shipments in the last 2 months miss their deadlines!

MsMorrisine · January 21, 2012 8:36AM

I was making sure they didn't offer refunds to us before I made an upcoming poll.

Cameonut · January 21, 2012 9:49AM

Regardess of who pockets the proceeds, the USPS ought to refund the fees if they didn't deliver. Why should the US government get a "mulligan" when they don't deliver? If it was UPS or Fedex, they would refund the money and try to do better next time.

Get ready for the USPS to offer Overnight service with no guarantee of delivery. I can see it coming.....

RYK · January 21, 2012 9:58AM

A wise coin dealer recently told me that it is bad shipping karma to go after these refunds, and I would tend to agree.

ColonialCoinUnion · January 21, 2012 10:07AM

<< A wise coin dealer recently told me that it is bad shipping karma to go after these refunds, and I would tend to agree. >>

I absolutely agree with this (and I do not think I am the one who told you!).

RYK · January 21, 2012 10:09AM

<< 

<< A wise coin dealer recently told me that it is bad shipping karma to go after these refunds, and I would tend to agree. >>

I absolutely agree with this (and I do not think I am the one who told you!). >>

Actually, you were.

BAJJERFAN · January 21, 2012 10:11AM

<< Express Mail missed its deadline today by a little over 6 hours.

It's guaranteed delivery or you get your money back.

It's also not the first time it's happened to me. I can recall at least 3 recent ones that missed the deadline.

Q::

Does PCGS seek, receive, and refund shipping fees in the case of missed deadlines??? >>

Are you saying that you paid PCGS to return your stuff by Express Mail? Do you want them to get your money back for you?

BAJJERFAN · January 21, 2012 10:13AM

<< Regardess of who pockets the proceeds, the USPS ought to refund the fees if they didn't deliver. Why should the US government get a "mulligan" when they don't deliver? If it was UPS or Fedex, they would refund the money and try to do better next time.

Get ready for the USPS to offer Overnight service with no guarantee of delivery. I can see it coming..... >>

Generally they will refund if it was their fault. They probably won't refund if it is a weather related failure.

AnkurJ · January 21, 2012 10:19AM

<< 

<< 

<< A wise coin dealer recently told me that it is bad shipping karma to go after these refunds, and I would tend to agree. >>

I absolutely agree with this (and I do not think I am the one who told you!). >>

Actually, you were.

>>

19Lyds · January 21, 2012 10:21AM

<< 

<< Express Mail missed its deadline today by a little over 6 hours.

It's guaranteed delivery or you get your money back.

It's also not the first time it's happened to me. I can recall at least 3 recent ones that missed the deadline.

Q::

Does PCGS seek, receive, and refund shipping fees in the case of missed deadlines??? >>

Are you saying that you paid PCGS to return your stuff by Express Mail? Do you want them to get your money back for you? >>

I'm confused. What deadline was missed.

A package shipped to PCGS?

A package shipped by PCGS?

If it was shipped TO PCGS, then the shipper gets the money back.

If it was shipped BY PCGS, then they as the shipper get the refund. As far as I know any fee's paid for shipping costs by a submitter for the return of a coin submission is non-refundable by PCGS which is as it should be since their return shipping fees have other costs rolled in.

Plus, I don't know that PCGS has an option for returning coin submissions via express mail.

AnkurJ · January 21, 2012 10:22AM

I went after an express mail refund when I sent something and it took more than the guaranteed time. I received a full refund.

If they offer a guarantee, why not? You're paying for it each time you send express.

RYK · January 21, 2012 10:24AM

<< I went after an express mail refund when I sent something and it took more than the guaranteed time. I received a full refund.

If they offer a guarantee, why not? You're paying for it each time you send express. >>

It depends. Do you want to be the one known as the pain in the butt at your local post office?

STONE · January 21, 2012 10:25AM

If you have the availability, get the refund from one USPS location and continue shipping at your regular USPS!

BAJJERFAN · January 21, 2012 10:30AM

<< Express Mail missed its deadline today by a little over 6 hours.

It's guaranteed delivery or you get your money back.

It's also not the first time it's happened to me. I can recall at least 3 recent ones that missed the deadline.

Plus, I don't know that PCGS has an option for returning coin submissions via express mail. >>

Indeed they do and it is at least $20 over priority. As to who is entitled to the refund for failure to perform, I believe that PCGS should return that back to you. If you paid $25 extra for faster return service, PCGS isn't out anything since everything they spent to ship your order was paid by you.

jt88 · January 21, 2012 10:34AM

I usually don't go after express mail refund. In one worth case it got there one week later than the guaranteed time. My buyer was not happy at all.

TheBigB · January 21, 2012 11:00AM

Easy, not your problem. If PCGS does gets a refund, it's not your business.

MsMorrisine · January 21, 2012 11:14AM

USPS has service level commitments.

They need to live up to their promise.

Do I want to be the pain in the butt to hold them to their word? If they think holding them to their word is being a pain in the butt, then they are worse off than I realize and need someone to be a "pain in the butt."

A couple of years ago I went into the local PO to talk to the PM. The word "try" was used with the other words "make it." Try? "Try," I said, "This is a guarantee." I was flipping out. (I don't like the thought of my packages sitting in the PO if I can help it) So, they "tried to make it" that day and we missed each other because they didn't come anywhere close to noon.

They seemed to improve after that.

I suspect they gave up today and just delivered it with my regular mail. It shows the PO receiing the box past noon and sending it out at 1pm. My kid was outside until 3 and I was waiting by the door, quite literally, from 3 - 6. It came with my regular mail.

I think they need to "try harder" again.

The PO doesn't have much in the way of surveys and "how are we doing" and other forms of "external quality controls." If no one on the outside complains, how will they know how bad it really is?????

I am also surprised by the experienced people not knowing that EM is a PCGS return option. When they went from RM, they changed it to PM and EM. Top of the reverse of the submission form....

The CS people @ PCGS tell me to over inflate the values to ensure they are sent EM instead of PM and I'm dying to use insure in this sentence, too, so yes I do know that over insures them. However, PCGS CSRs tell me that is the only way to get EM on return packages.(unless you ship on your own EM account)

MsMorrisine · January 21, 2012 11:18AM

<< Easy, not your problem. If PCGS does gets a refund, it's not your business. >>

Well, there is a little line item called "shipping charges" that I pay.

However, I recognize that they probably have private insurance in there which is not refundable (it was shipped after all, and thus insurance would have been used) and over head built into the price as well.

Back in the day when I charged for shipping on eBay items using FedEx and UPS, I would seek the refunds from UPS and FedEx and return them to the customer if late.

They paid for shipping and a specific type of shipping. A service level commitment was made to me and to them when they paid for that service.

BAJJERFAN · January 21, 2012 11:23AM

From the fees page. Go there to see the less cobbled up version.

PRIORITY MAIL EXPRESS MAIL REGISTERED MAIL
Number Coins $1 - $1,000 $1,001 - $5,000 $5,001 - $15,000 $15,001 - $50,000 $50,001 - $100,000 $100,001 - $150,000
1 - 4 $16.95 $24.95 $29.95 $49.95 $89.95 $129.95
5 - 25 $21.95 $29.95 $34.95 $56.95 $99.95 $149.95
26+ add 25¢/coin add 25¢/coin add 25¢/coin add 50¢/coin add 50¢/coin add 50¢/coin

coindeuce · January 21, 2012 11:25AM

In the case where you have shipped a package to PCGS by Express Mail, there is little to no chance you could ever file a claim for a delivery that took more than 24 hours to physically place in the possession of a PCGS agent. Since the PCGS address for submission shipments is a P.O. BOX, the Postal Service only has an obligation to provide documentation that an ATTEMPT TO DELIVER NOTICE was placed in the P.O. Box assigned to PCGS at the branch, within 24 hours of the acceptance of your package at your point of departure. The Postal Service does include a box on the Express Mail shipping label for a contact telephone number of the addressee, but this is merely a courtesy service, and in no way does it carry a liability to the Postal Service to call the addressee for the purpose of effecting a delivery within 24 hours. And certainly PCGS isn't likely to have the resources to have someone camp out at the Post Office waiting for Box mail to arrive.

If the opposite direction of travel is the case, then it would be PCGS' decision to file a claim even if you claimed a financial hardship because the Postal Service didn't perform by their standard for the service.
It might be easier in the latter case to just ask CS to comp you on a future submission.

Did you actually suffer a financial hardship by a delayed delivery, or are you just being neurotic?

BAJJERFAN · January 21, 2012 11:27AM

<< Easy, not your problem. If PCGS does gets a refund, it's not your business. >>

Boy are you misguided. You pay PCGS for the service, none of it comes from their pocketbook. If it is late getting to you, they don't track it and don't care. You have to complain to PCGS and they may or may not seek a refund on your behalf. Any refund awarded should go to you and not PCGS.

notwilight · January 21, 2012 11:27AM

I had one that was over 2 weeks late. Here is the thread. I thought maybe I would go for the refund on this one but never did. --Jerry

DoubleEagle59 · January 21, 2012 11:29AM

<< A wise coin dealer recently told me that it is bad shipping karma to go after these refunds, and I would tend to agree. >>

Yes...kind of like 'don't send back your food order in a restaurant to the kitchen'

I'm not worried about bad karma, I'm worried about the chef spitting on my food.

MsMorrisine · January 21, 2012 11:35AM

<< Did you actually suffer a financial hardship by a delayed delivery, or are you just being neurotic? >>

hardship?

neurotic?

I'm talking about multiple instances of them missing a commitment and guarantee.

Maybe people who seek PCGS' guarantees are also neurotic???

The overall point here is that I'm paying a lot of money to get something that I don't get. If you are happy with anywhere from 1-2pm deliveries and up to 6pm deliveries on a 12pm commitment, then you go your way and I'll go mine. But to call it neurotic? I've got some spotted MS70 silver to sell you, I'm sure you won't mind the minor flaws.... you ARE a COIN collector right??? details.... details....

MsMorrisine · January 21, 2012 11:37AM

<< 

<< A wise coin dealer recently told me that it is bad shipping karma to go after these refunds, and I would tend to agree. >>

Yes...kind of like 'don't send back your food order in a restaurant to the kitchen'

I'm not worried about bad karma, I'm worried about the chef spitting on my food. >>

I tell them I let it get cold, if it is undercooked and ask for a reheat.

if it tastes bad, then I don't eat it and complain at checkout.

coindeuce · January 21, 2012 11:42AM

OP, please explain your need to have your coins returned by Express Mail.
Do you have impatient retail customers? Is it there emotional distress over the absence of your collection?
Just trying to get a rational understanding of your urgency. Not making any judgements

BTW - PCGS has no control over how the Postal Service performs. But you know this already.

BAJJERFAN · January 21, 2012 11:48AM

<< 

<< 

<< A wise coin dealer recently told me that it is bad shipping karma to go after these refunds, and I would tend to agree. >>

Yes...kind of like 'don't send back your food order in a restaurant to the kitchen'

I'm not worried about bad karma, I'm worried about the chef spitting on my food. >>

I tell them I let it get cold, if it is undercooked and ask for a reheat.

if it tastes bad, then I don't eat it and complain at checkout. >>

Or be like a former BIL who ate the meal and then complained and expected a discount after he ate the evidence.

TheBigB · January 21, 2012 11:49AM

<< 

<< Easy, not your problem. If PCGS does gets a refund, it's not your business. >>

Well, there is a little line item called "shipping charges" that I pay. >>

You have a point, but that is between you and PCGS, not the USPS.

In that case you may deserve a credit, regardless of whether PCGS gets a refund.

BAJJERFAN · January 21, 2012 11:52AM

<< OP, please explain your need to have your coins returned by Express Mail.
Do you have impatient retail customers? Is it there emotional distress over the absence of your collection?
Just trying to get a rational understanding of your urgency. Not making any judgements

BTW - PCGS has no control over how the Postal Service performs. But you know this already. >>

If time wasn't of the essence for some people then there would never be a need to offer expedited service. If you sell your Mint coins to one of the modern buyers on the BST why do they expect FAST delivery and why do some waste their money or yours express mailing the check to you? Security might be one reason.

coindeuce · January 21, 2012 12:11PM

Bajjer - I concur, for some individuals time is critical. Since the OP did not fully disclose his purpose in choosing Express delivery, it seemed logical to ask for a clarification. Especially since the purpose of the rant seemed off track. How is anyone here going to possibly help the OP obtain the compensation he seems to need?
I made a sincere suggestion that the OP ask CS for a comp. on a future submission. Apparently that suggestion was not acknowledged. EOM.

BAJJERFAN · January 21, 2012 12:32PM

<< Bajjer - I concur, for some individuals time is critical. Since the OP did not fully disclose his purpose in choosing Express delivery, it seemed logical to ask for a clarification. Especially since the purpose of the rant seemed off track. How is anyone here going to possibly help the OP obtain the compensation he seems to need?
I made a sincere suggestion that the OP ask CS for a comp. on a future submission. Apparently that suggestion was not acknowledged. EOM. >>

If he paid PCGS to use expedited service and if the delivery guarantee wasn't met, then of course he needs to ask PCGS CS to act on his behalf although there is no assurance that they will do so. If I paid for delivery by noon monday and it was 2 pm instead, I don't think I'd be terribly unhappy unless I was financially damaged for failing to meet a deadline myself.

MsMorrisine · January 21, 2012 2:42PM

I use EM for the additional security
and the speed since these are "new" releases to go up on eBay.

(but they are not so new anymore due to a few other unmentioned delays.)

derryb · January 21, 2012 2:52PM

<< Did you actually suffer a financial hardship by a delayed delivery, or are you just being neurotic? >>

She didn't get what she paid for. That's good enough for me.

MsMorrisine · January 24, 2012 5:49AM

check the OP for an update

even THEY know what happened was wrong.

STONE · January 24, 2012 7:21AM

So then Press them further with this...or take legal action against it.

It's a very cut-and-dry case, and the PO would be stupid to fight it!

derryb · January 24, 2012 7:46AM

USPS Inspector General

WaterSport · January 24, 2012 8:09AM

If it was UPS or Fedex, they would refund the money and try to do better next time.

Sorry to inform you that both UPS and FEDEX have the contracts with the USPS to ship all priority mail services. So you can blame all three if you like.

USPS info

WS

coinkat · January 24, 2012 9:25AM

Get over it and move on

Barry · January 24, 2012 11:16AM

<< A wise coin dealer recently told me that it is bad shipping karma to go after these refunds, and I would tend to agree. >>

Wise coin dealers aren't superstitious.

illini420 · May 9, 2012 10:13AM

I sent out an express package recenty and was reminded of this thread... the USPS definitely messes around with their posted scan times on the tracking website. Here's what it's showing on a package I sent out which is nearing the deadline for delivery:

Processed through USPS Sort Facility
May 08, 2012, 8:39 am
HONOLULU, HI 96820

Dispatched to Sort Facility
May 07, 2012, 6:23 pm
AGOURA HILLS, CA 91301

Acceptance
May 07, 2012, 3:24 pm
AGOURA HILLS, CA 91301

Processed through USPS Sort Facility
May 07, 2012, 2:45 pm
VAN NUYS, CA 91406

I shipped the item from zip code 91301 and did indeed drop it off at the post office around 3:30 pm on Monday as it shows. It seems to make sense that my local post office dispatched it to the local sort facility around 3 hours later at 6:23 pm. Not sure how it was processed through that sort facility in Van Nuys about an hour before I even packed it up and shipped it?????

I sent it to Hawaii so they don't even do next day guarantee on Express... instead it's 2 day guarantee. And if it's not delivered in the next 50 minutes they've missed the deadline... but I'm sure they'll fix it on the tracking website to meet the deadline

epcjimi1 · May 9, 2012 10:42AM

Amazing that your package traveled backwards through time 50 minutes and a distance of five miles from A. Hills to V. Nuys.

The only explanation is simple, time machine guy is messing with ya -

MsMorrisine · February 7, 2015 7:24AM

bump

Eclectic · February 7, 2015 7:59AM

<< bump >>

Why not make another thread?

bronco2078 · February 7, 2015 8:27AM

<< 

<< Did you actually suffer a financial hardship by a delayed delivery, or are you just being neurotic? >>

She didn't get what she paid for. That's good enough for me. >>

I thought MsMorrisine was a he , who happened to like Miles Davis

BAJJERFAN · February 7, 2015 8:30AM

<< Regardess of who pockets the proceeds, the USPS ought to refund the fees if they didn't deliver. Why should the US government get a "mulligan" when they don't deliver? If it was UPS or Fedex, they would refund the money and try to do better next time.

Get ready for the USPS to offer Overnight service with no guarantee of delivery. I can see it coming..... >>

As long as it gets there close to the guaranteed time, why not cut em some slack? I think they use FEDEX and UPS planes so maybe just go with either of those.

DoubleEagle59 · February 7, 2015 8:31AM

----

BAJJERFAN · February 7, 2015 8:33AM

<< ---- >>

Boy was that close!

grote15 · February 7, 2015 8:42AM

What is the purpose of bumping this thread?

bronco2078 · February 7, 2015 8:49AM

<< What is the purpose of bumping this thread? >>

Probably just to call attention to the USPS playing fast and loose with scans. Its happened to me as well with some ebay packages recently. One item I bought a week ago bounced all over New England while it was in transit and then today it was delivered to me I rechecked the tracking and all the in between scans were expunged , whooshhhhh right down the old memory hole.

puffer · February 7, 2015 9:07AM

I had a number of express parcels get treated like priorities in the last couple weeks. If we are paying for express why not get them to honor their guarantees? It would be a little legalistic if dealers are making large profits to chisel and complain at the usps with an hour late. Others are making small profits and ride the anxiety when the usps messes up more than others. Same day delivery just a few hours late vs. a full day late would be where to draw the line.

UPDATE -- Express Mail Missed its Deadline by 6 Hours -- Does PCGS Get & Give Shipping Refunds??

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UPDATE -- Express Mail Missed its Deadline by 6 Hours -- Does PCGS Get &amp; Give Shipping Refunds??

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UPDATE -- Express Mail Missed its Deadline by 6 Hours -- Does PCGS Get & Give Shipping Refunds??