Safes

mrpaseo

So I was watching a show called "Storage Wars" and they found a safe that is much like this one:



The guy picked it up to about face level and dropped it on the corner... first try, it popped open.

My research tells me that there are three basic types of safes:

1. Fire proof safe
2. Security safe
3. Fire proof/security safe

The obvious answer is 1 is good against fire but not very secure, 2 is good against theft but not very fire proof and three is good against fire and theft. Research tells me 3 is the most expensive (Again for obvious reasons).

Just wanted to share,
Ray

mrpaseo

Another point of note, fire proof safes are made with cement or cement like substance, this stuff holds moisture... moisture is bad for coins.

LanceNewmanOCC

<< <i>Another point of note, fire proof safes are made with cement or cement like substance, this stuff holds moisture... moisture is bad for coins. >>



agreee about the moisture

there are some VERY effective threads in the archives on accessories to store inside a safe with certain types of items

plus for anyone storing substantially valuable items, pay a consultant, do research etc
.

Hawgstick

If you can pick it up to eye level and drop it its still not secure even if it doesn't open. They will just take it home. Safe deposit box at your trusted credit union is the way to store your valuables.

BryceM

I suppose this has been discussed here before, but I did a fair bit of research before buying one for my home.

First, the thing in the photo isn't a safe. At best it's a fire-resistant shoebox. Anything one or two people can carry around isn't worth the trouble IMO. The things that 99% of people buy for their guns or coins aren't safes either. Even the very large ones are correctly termed "Residential Storage Containers".

Second, residential "fire-proof" so-called safes are lined with with gypsum, which is the same stuff as the inside guts of sheetrock. Gypsum is made up of calcium sulfate molecules (CaSO4). Calcium sulfate is the stuff in chalk. When calcium sulfate chemically complexes with a couple of water molecules it is called gypsum, CaSO4-2H2O. These water molecules are chemically complexed with the CaSO4 and are generally NOT free to float around damaging coins. The relative humidity inside a safe will be about the same as the relative humidity of the air around it. This same chemical hydration reaction is used to turn plaster coated bandages into casts after dipping them in water.

An interesting thing happens when you heat up gypsum. At a certain temperature it gives back the water molecules in the form of steam. The gypsum absorbs a tremendous amount of heat energy as this happens. The bottom line is that it takes a long time for all of the water to be driven off and for the temperature inside a safe to rise to dangerous levels. The safe I bought advertises about 90 minutes of protection before the interior temperature rises enough to damage paper (around 400 degrees F). I'm not sure at what point holders begin to melt or at what point coins would be permanently affected by rising temps. It's safe to say it's probably not 90 minutes, but its certainly better than in a wood cabinet.

My RSC weighs around 850 lbs when empty. It took four guys from the safe store about 45 minutes to bring it in my home using specialized moving equipment. That said, it would surprise you how many criminals simply use a floor jack or dolly to cart the whole thing off back to their "lair", whatever that is. Bolting it to the floor helps a bit.

Casual drug-seeking teen-agers will probably bust off the spinner and handle but not get anywhere. Dedicated bad dudes might be able to pop it open if given enough time - say an hour - without specialized equipment. Most bad guys will get nervous and leave before that happens. Educated bad guys who know what they're after will probably take 10-15 minutes to get inside. If you couple this with a good alarm system and if you're real lucky the cops might get there first. Real pros might take 1-5 minutes. A guy with a gun pointed at a family member would have me popping it open for him inside of 10 seconds.

To me, the real benefit of the thing is to keep my kids out of the guns and to buy me some time while waiting for the fire department. Where I live that might eat up a good part of the 90 minutes. It will probably also prevent theft from the 80 or 90% of less-dedicated bozos who cruise around looking for people on vacation.

Safe deposit boxes are arguably better, but they are also subject to theft, flooding, illegal (?) seizure, problems being sealed by probate upon death, and they're not inexpensive either. They also make it durn hard to actually enjoy a collection. Insuring the coins is probably the most fool-proof route, but that's also reasonably expensive and comes with its own set of requirements. If you're a gloom & doom end-of-the world type of character, getting access to your goodies in the SDB or collecting on an insurance policy probably won't happen if the world is about to end.

For people who have truly valuable collections ($1M plus), I hope they take security seriously. There are some motivated bad dudes who'll do some nasty things to get at toys like that.

*** Edited for bad speleeng.

PerryHall

<< <i>So I was watching a show called "Storage Wars" and they found a safe that is much like this one:



The guy picked it up to about face level and dropped it on the corner... first try, it popped open.

My research tells me that there are three basic types of safes:

1. Fire proof safe
2. Security safe
3. Fire proof/security safe

The obvious answer is 1 is good against fire but not very secure, 2 is good against theft but not very fire proof and three is good against fire and theft. Research tells me 3 is the most expensive (Again for obvious reasons).

Just wanted to share,
Ray >>



That's not a safe---it's a small lock box that happens to offer some fire protection for important papers. By it's very nature it can be picked up and stolen without any trouble by a thief.