Options
Has the decade old run-up of SC$'s reached its expected conclusion??
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
Beginning sometime around the turn of the Century there was a very noticeable increase in interest in Exonumia which seemed to coincide with the increased interest in Coins. Almost overnight So-Called Dollars came into their own. They seemed to be available everywhere, could be bought at realistic or even cheap prices, most listed issues showed up somewhere and the examples offered ran the entire gamut of grades from worn pocket pieces to Gem Unc/Proof. Heritage Auctions began a brief bi-annual auction dedicated to Exonumia and heavily influenced by SC$'s that lasted about 3-4 years and Stack's even seemed to increas what they generally had for sale in their auctions. Heck, even eBay added a seperate category for them!! As should be expected, a few books pertaining to medals were published with forum members leading the charge. It seemed sort of like Exonumic Heaven...........................for about seven years.
Almost as soon as they began the Heritage Auctions ended, the supply of Gems and difficult issues waned, realistic prices became a thing of the past and the legion of new, interested collector was left wanting. That's my take on things, myopic as it might seem. I managed to make quite a few acquaintances of like-minded collectors and added to my collection while things were rolling along. I even held the wolves at bay by selling some stuff when times were hard a few years ago. The problem is that for about a year or two I have found it almost impossible to find anything I really, really want to pony up for. All that I see is either impaired/low grade, too expensive or just too common. I guess what has taken place is sort of a "transfer of wealth" where collections sparked by the original Hibler-Kappen work of the early 1960's has been re-distributed as a result of this renewed interest.
Do you agree, or am I just off kilter a little?? Thanks in advance.
Al H.
Almost as soon as they began the Heritage Auctions ended, the supply of Gems and difficult issues waned, realistic prices became a thing of the past and the legion of new, interested collector was left wanting. That's my take on things, myopic as it might seem. I managed to make quite a few acquaintances of like-minded collectors and added to my collection while things were rolling along. I even held the wolves at bay by selling some stuff when times were hard a few years ago. The problem is that for about a year or two I have found it almost impossible to find anything I really, really want to pony up for. All that I see is either impaired/low grade, too expensive or just too common. I guess what has taken place is sort of a "transfer of wealth" where collections sparked by the original Hibler-Kappen work of the early 1960's has been re-distributed as a result of this renewed interest.
Do you agree, or am I just off kilter a little?? Thanks in advance.
Al H.
0
Comments
In terms of bargains, in the last week I bought a HK-507 (National Capital Sesquicentennial, in silver) for $13, and a HK-432 (West Gate Panama California Exposition) for $30.
There's still stuff out there!
............
<< <i>
............
Used to own a steel hub for that design. A very impressive paperweight!
TD
<< <i>I dunno... I just got the prices realized from Jeff Shevlin's latest auction, and it seems that some people sure are willing to pony up for nice pieces.
In terms of bargains, in the last week I bought a HK-507 (National Capital Sesquicentennial, in silver) for $13, and a HK-432 (West Gate Panama California Exposition) for $30.
There's still stuff out there! >>
Seems like several of Jeff's auction have brought good money.
BST Transactions: DonnyJf, MrOrganic, Justanothercoinaddict, Fivecents, Slq, Jdimmick,
Robb, Tee135, Ibzman350, Mercfan, Outhaul, Erickso1, Cugamongacoins, Indiananationals, Wayne Herndon
Negative BST Transactions:
[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/20110219img3497.jpg/]
[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/20110219img3498.jpg/]
Still trying to figure this picture thing out....
Like so many other numismatic specialties, So-Called Dollars are now being pursued by a small, wealthy group who only want the best and rarest pieces.
When I collected SCDs in the mid-1980's the rarities and high grade pieces were nowhere to be seen. As you mention, there seems to have been a dispersion of major collections of SCDs in the very early 2000s. I suspect the dispersion was caused by an aging collector population who got started in the 1950's or early 1960's. I was just getting into collecting at that time and remember when the Hibbler-Kaplan book was published. Instead of increasing interest in the field it actually killed interest by using wildly inaccurate pricing for 1963. The original printing of the book hung around for about 20 years, not finally disappearing until the early 1980's.
The dispersion of collections in the early 2000s brought new people into the field. Those new people who have not been impacted by the 2008 economic collapse continue to pursue the best. Those who were impacted by the 2008 debacle have dropped out.
Because prices got so out of control and people paid big money, I think that the collections have been put away until the market returns, whenever that may be.
<< <i>I think that the prices got so high that those with "normal" budgets gave up trying. But there are still enough collectors with higher budgets that are willing to pay for the finest, rarest pieces.
Because prices got so out of control and people paid big money, I think that the collections have been put away until the market returns, whenever that may be. >>
I agree. I dabbled in SCD's for a while but the pricing got so crazy, I limited my purchases to only a few selected pieces that were of interest to me. I don't think I spent crazy money for anything, but some of the pieces I see in holders these days would take your breath away.
For crazy money, I would just as soon buy a US coin than an SCD or token... just sayin. (and believe me, I enjoy SCD's - the older the better).
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
i hate to say it and sound like a broken record, but i think part of the blame for those prices rests with the publisher's insistence that a Price Guide accompany the revised book.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
<< <i>Jonathan, i don't disagree about nice pieces still bringing buyers in, it's just that they don't seem to be offered with the frequency that they have been in the past. also, the two medals you mentioned are typical for what i see offered although the prices are a steal. i have followed some of Jeff's sales; he seems to have been selling his lesser medals via eBay but i missed his auction. >>
I guess I don't understand what you're going for, then. HK-432 is a pretty rare piece. I have records for 10 auction appearances of that piece, putting it in a tie for 527th rarest (out of 1379). John Raymond has records for 7 auction appearances, putting it in a tie for 644th (out of 1663) on his list.
If that's not rare enough for you, then how about HK-368a? I bought one of those last month. I have record of zero auction appearances; John has record of 2 (938th place). That was one of the few pieces where we couldn't locate ANY specimen to get a picture for the second edition book, and we had to end up reusing a photocopy from the first edition.
Prices are only out of control for the people who let them get out of control. These can still be had very reasonably, if you're patient!
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
perhaps i mis-spoke regarding that issue, it's nothing i've ever looked at from an exhibition that holds little interest for me. your subsequent mention of recorded sales is interesting, though, since many medals i'm hoping to find that are supposed to be common don't seem to show up at all and others thought to be rare seem to routinely be available. that's part of the allure and i have issues that i buy every example i see for sale, usually less than one a year.
An HK-19 that looks to have been maybe XF and cleaned just sold for $282.
<< <i>many medals i'm hoping to find that are supposed to be common don't seem to show up at all and others thought to be rare seem to routinely be available. >>
Yep, on both counts! And some of the "common" ones sell for decent money, while some of the rare ones sell cheaply. Supply, demand...
<< <i>NotSure, I've always considered HK-19 to be a condition rarity only. The great majority of the surviving silver composition have been impaired by amateurs who tried to "improve" them, or were carried long enough as pocket pieces to have sustained measurable wear. They're not hard to find if one doesn't mind owning one of sub-standard quality. >>
So, in all reality, was that $811 a bargain, fair market...???? I just checked, 2,526 minted...any melted? As you said, impaired/sub-standard material seems commomplace foor the piece. Could/should that 62PL gonefor more, or do you think it'swhat the market is bearing? Thanks for your input, coindeuce!
<< <i>Speaking of rarities, a HK-154a (Columbian Exposition official medal, in aluminum) just sold on eBay for a bit over $2,200. The last sale I have on record was over a decade ago... >>
For what it's worth, I am fairly confident that items such as this are nothing more than Barber playing with dies at the mint. There are more than one odd metal variety that are known to have come out of his personal collection of various medals.
the most I've ever bid in any auction.
It sold for $17,300.
<< <i>At the recent Heritage FUN auction, I placed my maximum bid of $4,500 on a so-called-dollar,
the most I've ever bid in any auction.
It sold for $17,300. >>
It sold for almost that much, nearly twenty years ago. Safe bet that $4,500 wasn't going to land it today.
July 31, 1993 -- $3,850
January 7, 2012 -- 17,250
In this case, the coin has a serial number, so there isn't a question about whether the two sales are comparable. It's exactly the same coin.
Leshers always have sold for huge amounts.
<< <i>
<< <i>At the recent Heritage FUN auction, I placed my maximum bid of $4,500 on a so-called-dollar,
the most I've ever bid in any auction.
It sold for $17,300. >>
It sold for almost that much, nearly twenty years ago. Safe bet that $4,500 wasn't going to land it today.
July 31, 1993 -- $3,850
January 7, 2012 -- 17,250
In this case, the coin has a serial number, so there isn't a question about whether the two sales are comparable. It's exactly the same coin.
Leshers always have sold for huge amounts. >>
I remember at coin shows in the Denver area in the early 1970s, Leshers could be bought for $25 each. Most dealers would scoff at them: "that's not a US coin !".