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Would you sell your COMPLETE collection as a unit or each coin individually ?
STEWARTBLAYNUMIS
Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
I am completely convinced I would only sell my individual collections ( ex. Half cents,Flying Eagle cents, Indian cents, Matte Proof Lincoln cents, mint state Lincoln cents etc.) as whole units either privately or at auction.
My reasoning is very simple in that I believe the whole is worth more than the sum of it's parts. The only examples that I have witnessed have been turn of the century Proof sets that almost always brought more as a complete Proof set. I have seen shrewd dealers such as Laura the Legend buy complete sets for BIG money and it seems the buyer,seller and the dealer are all Happy.
I wonder if this would be possible to do in an auction format ? Imagine a collection of Mint state Lincoln Cents bringing over $2,000,000
As one lot !
What do you think ?
Stewart Blay
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I want your 1866 PC MS66 R/B cent!
K
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
I think something where you are saying to "sell a complete collection in one lot at auction" is better suited for dealers (Like Laura)
to handle since there may only be 1 or 2 collectors interested in and capable of purchasing an entire collection all at once. As
such that would reduce the overall competition for the collection and may catastrphically hurt the eventual sale price.
Plus, to most people, collecting is more the "thrill of the hunt", piece by piece, but if an opportunity presents itself to purchase
an entire collection all at once, that can also be the "thrill of the hunt" for people with greater means!
In terms of my modest collection of Bust Dimes, I would be thrilled to have someone purchase my collection all at once because
it is a fairly well matched collection and would take several thousand more hours to locate each piece individually, unless of course
you didn't care what you paid and had every dealer looking for a coin for you!
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
<< <i>He who sells sets intact leaves money on the table almost every time. >>
Not the best sets. Just ask Tradedollarnut.
Stuart owns one of dem der best sets.
if it were time to sell and there was no stupid offer, it goes to auction to be sold one lot at a time.
It depends on various and multiple factors as they exist at the specific time and as they exist on a case by case basis.
For a collection(s) such as yours, the answer would probably be different than the answer for more modest collections.
Further, I am sure that coming up with the right answer for a specific collection would require a knowledge base, expertise level and skill set that many collectors simply do not have. Such collectors would be well served to obtain the advice of others more wise than he/she.
Are you selling??
Let us consider the recently auctioned Dr. And Mrs. Steven Duckor collection of Saint Gauden double Eagles.
Is there anyone here qualified to say whether that collection would have brought more if sold as a whole unit individually
Instead of the auction.
Stewart
I am primarily referring to top sets
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I imagine this is the kind of question that 100 top experts including us here will respond to with 199 different answers?
I simply do not know the answer. I can speculate on such an answer all day long.
<< <i>Selling as a set by private treaty is a great idea, because you get to set the price and you do not need an underbidder. Selling as a complete set at auction is almost always a very bad idea because you need an strong underbidder, and buyers for complete sets are few and far between. >>
I can't remember a major set being offered intact at auction...
<< <i>Selling an intact collection is a great idea (as long as you can find a buyer who will pay your price). >>
After Louis Eliasberg passed away, the entire collection was offered to Harry W. Bass, Jr., but they couldn't get together.
When Mike Brownlee and I handled the Wilkison collection of pattern gold coins, we tried to market the collection as a unit and were unsuccessful until Paramount decided to purchase it.
It is simply a matter of the desire of the seller and buyer to make a deal. Normally, it would be a win/win.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
<< <i>Let us consider the recently auctioned Dr. And Mrs. Steven Duckor collection of Saint Gauden double Eagles.
Is there anyone here qualified to say whether that collection would have brought more if sold as a whole unit individually
Instead of the auction. >>
It would have brought $1M more privately.
I sold my seated dollar set very close to my asking price in a private transaction. Legend sells many sets for full asking price - but only great sets are capable of bringing top money. I've had semi serious inquiries on my trade dollar set and my answer is always the same: $5M. Someday, who knows - someone will pay it. But it will never go into auction.
Does not look like much of any consensus?
<< <i>It appears the response so far is that it is a mixed bag response and many responses are based on single experiences with one set.
Does not look like much of any consensus? >>
A consensus on this board? lol!
The right way to do it is to set your price and offer it. NO serious collector is ever going to underprice their set by a significant amount....and even if it's underpriced a bit the auction house vig is going to bite into that. Be realistic but strong.
The wrong way to do it is to wait until you need to sell.
Assuming a reasonable reserve, it is very unlikely a 50 coin(plus) 2 million dollar set will sell.
But I agree that a knowledgeable collector and his agent dealer can find a buyer for any of stewarts sets, within a 6 month to 18 month time frame.
Another query-- will any of the sets sell for more if auctioned individually vs. a private treaty sale of all coins to one buyer
?
Hard to decide the answer. If there are mutiple set builders of the series, an auction of individual lots might bring more than the whole set, to one buyer.
But if a whale wants to start a lincoln set( not having a partial one already), and sees a savings over the juices paid in an auction, it could be a win/win for both parties. eg., estimated hammer at sale is 2 million, seller's part of the juice 140,000, buyer would pay 15% or 300,000 juice at auction for all the coins. Seller agrees to accept 2.1 million, and not take any more chances.
seller's downside-- no auction catalog with images, no chance for a runaway sale of the best pieces.
While I did not try to sell my Barber halves to one buyer, I believe the auction process worked best for me and that set-- many coins brought record prices, and the lesser coins were only low by a small %.
Good Luck, Stewart
Then there was that huge Type Collection Contursi bought for several million a few years ago.
How about David Halls $10 Collection? That sold as a collection for $4 million.
<< <i>
<< <i>Let us consider the recently auctioned Dr. And Mrs. Steven Duckor collection of Saint Gauden double Eagles.
Is there anyone here qualified to say whether that collection would have brought more if sold as a whole unit individually
Instead of the auction. >>
It would have brought $1M more privately.
I sold my seated dollar set very close to my asking price in a private transaction. Legend sells many sets for full asking price - but only great sets are capable of bringing top money. I've had semi serious inquiries on my trade dollar set and my answer is always the same: $5M. Someday, who knows - someone will pay it. But it will never go into auction. >>
I'd like to give you $5M for it, but I just don't know that much about Trade Dollars. Let me call my buddy up, he's an expert about these things and he'll be able to tell me all about them.
-D
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
When selling privately the two major auction houses become potential buyers. When selling at auction you do get your own catalog,your name in lights.......and all your creditors trying to collect....perhaps even your ex ?
I believe there would be private buyers for any major collection,perhaps even a Lincoln Memorial set, or a Roosevelt dime collection.
I am in agreement that it is not wise to sell a whole major set in auction. Generally speaking putting reserves on coins in auction could be instant failure and shilling is illegal.
Stewart
<< <i>When selling privately the two major auction houses become potential buyers. When selling at auction you do get your own catalog,your name in lights.......and all your creditors trying to collect....perhaps even your ex ?
I believe there would be private buyers for any major collection,perhaps even a Lincoln Memorial set, or a Roosevelt dime collection.
I am in agreement that it is not wise to sell a whole major set in auction. Generally speaking putting reserves on coins in auction could be instant failure and shilling is illegal.
Stewart >>
So how do you move $5 million without someone getting wind of it? If your cost was $4 mil and you sold it for $4.2 mil do you do a bank transfer for $4 mil and the 0.2 mil in C notes?
<< <i>I would think that unless the person selling had the top pop. for every date/mm and many single population coins, it would be better to sell individually. You're likely to have other collectors that will end up with duplicates that would hate to part with large sums of money just to upgrade a few coins. Now if you have a collector/investor with large sums of money that wanted to start a new set, then you are talking about something different. An auction house would likely be the bidder otherwise as they would have the time and capitol to make such a large purchase and sell them individually. >>
Maybe someone with a great set would buy another great set and end up with one Super Set and sell the extras.
If a person has assembled one of the best collections in existence (let's take your example with the saints), the sum of the parts would not be as much value as the complete collection, from that perspective, sir. (because of the NAME).
Does anyone else remember this ??
For someone who collects dates, etc I would say sell each type separately
I think the sum of the parts might be worth more because you'll have multiple bidders working to complete (or improve) their collections. For example, who wouldn't like to have the 1919 in MS69 in their type set. Or in their Lincoln Cent set. Just to name one coin.
Bajjerfan - If one is to sell privately no one would ever realize the value of the collection because the proceeds could then be reinvested in another collectable tax free. If would be just like buying and selling your primary residence.
In the 1990's I was offered the Alan Epstein Indian cent collection which was and still may have been the finest collection of Indian and Flying Eagle cents ever assembled for $463,000. Not only myself but also Jay Parrino could not justify buying the set for more than $325,000.
We are presently in a different era of buying and selling rare coins. Without question the finest sets on the Set Registry will do better in a private transaction. The same may be true for selling under graded coins in auction in respect that they may well prove they do better than if they are maxed out and then put in auction.
Stewart
If I had the free cash, would love to buy your Lincoln, FE and IHC collections.
Hopefully Laura and Simpson are catching wind of this thread........
We were offered the Husak Large cent collection for $6.5 million (Seriously!). He arrived at the number by taking what he paid and doubling it. He offered it to us because we had a guy who would buy it intact. It was raw at the time. Unfortunately, it didn't work out and Heritage got it, slabbed it, and auctioned it off for over $10 Million.
<< <i>We're still thanking Stewart for not buying the Epstein collection. We made much more breaking it up.
We were offered the Husak Large cent collection for $6.5 million (Seriously!). He arrived at the number by taking what he paid and doubling it. He offered it to us because we had a guy who would buy it intact. It was raw at the time. Unfortunately, it didn't work out and Heritage got it, slabbed it, and auctioned it off for over $10 Million. >>
Is breaking up a set and selling it privately that much more of a hassle than selling it coin by coin at auction? Maybe that's what Stewart should be musing about.