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Is it me or is something not right with this card? NEW card added (same seller).

artistlostartistlost Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
It looks like the card on the left has better centering...I have made it so that both cards measure the same size....

what do you think?

image

mathew
baseball & hockey junkie

drugs of choice
NHL hall of fame rookies

Comments

  • CNoteCNote Posts: 2,070 ✭


    << <i>It looks like the card on the left has better centering...I have made it so that both cards measure the same size....

    what do you think?

    image

    mathew >>



    You're right. That's totally Kurt Russel.
  • artistlostartistlost Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭
    Other than being Kurt Russell...does it look like someone added to the right boarder and took a bit off the left to the card on the left?
    baseball & hockey junkie

    drugs of choice
    NHL hall of fame rookies
  • mike22y2kmike22y2k Posts: 325 ✭
    Even though the cert#'s are the same the cards look like they are not the same card. The lighting on the card on the right is deceiving. Even looks like the card on the right is curved giving the card an appearance of being off centered.
    Working my way to #1 1979 Topps Hockey
    I know it's going to be tough!
  • PowderedH2OPowderedH2O Posts: 2,443 ✭✭
    I agree. They don't appear to be the same card.
    Successful dealings with shootybabitt, LarryP, Doctor K, thedutymon, billsgridirongreats, fattymacs, shagrotn77, pclpads, JMDVM, gumbyfan, itzagoner, rexvos, al032184, gregm13, californiacards3, mccardguy1, BigDaddyBowman, bigreddog, bobbyw8469, burke23, detroitfan2, drewsef, jeff8877, markmac, Goldlabels, swartz1, blee1, EarlsWorld, gseaman25, kcballboy, jimrad, leadoff4, weinhold, Mphilking, milbroco, msassin, meteoriteguy, rbeaton and gameusedhoop.
  • artistlostartistlost Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭
    I bought the card on the left and it was the card on the right that just arrived. No sign of tampering with the case and it looks legit in the holder having it in hand. I like the card I have but paid a premium for the card as it was sold as being centered 50/50 and the picture shown was the one on the left...
    baseball & hockey junkie

    drugs of choice
    NHL hall of fame rookies
  • sportscardtheorysportscardtheory Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭
    Different scanners and types of scans make for different looking scans of the same items. The settings are different, the card is positioned differently in the PSA case and the scanner is clearly different. I have seen far worse mirages created by scans.
    tradingcardcommunity on reddit - CLICK HERE, JOIN AND POST!]
  • mlbfan2mlbfan2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭
    Maybe it's from the scanner, but I see 3 of the same dots on each card (near the upper right corner, above the "e" in "center", and near his left shoulder).
  • bkingbking Posts: 3,095 ✭✭


    << <i>Maybe it's from the scanner, but I see 3 of the same dots on each card (near the upper right corner, above the "e" in "center", and near his left shoulder). >>



    Good catch; I can see those too, and I'm bad at spotting such small dots.
    ----------------------
    Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
    ----------------------

    Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
  • 1980scollector1980scollector Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭
    I see a small print dot in the S on the left card that I cannot see in the right.

    The top to bottom looks different as well.

    To me they are different cards.
    ** Working on the following sets-2013 Spectra Football Hall of Fame 50th Anniversary Autograph set, 2015 Spectra Football Illustrious Legends Autograph set, 2014-15 Hall of Fame Heroes autograph set. **
  • aconteaconte Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭
    The left to right centering looks different.

    aconte
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    What's going on with the bottom part of the PSA label on the right hand card?

    I used photoshop to overlay one card on top of the other (using fixed points in the picture to sync the images) and it's clear that the left and right borders don't match on the two cards.

    Is someone doctoring scans?
    My Giants collection want list

    WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
  • jay0791jay0791 Posts: 3,554 ✭✭✭✭
    Mathew

    The card is in the case but has the plastic between card and case.
    this allows the card to move around much more than in a case. maybe due to size (over).
    There is a change due to ths depending on how the scanner (also settings to enhance image) light hits card.

    The marks on the case itself match up as well as a few print spots.

    Same card IMO

    nice BTW
    Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets
    1948-76 Topps FB Sets
    FB & BB HOF Player sets
    1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭


    << <i>here is a change due to ths depending on how the scanner (also settings to enhance image) light hits card. >>



    The card on the left measures 57/43. The card on the right measures 64/36.

    I don't see how standard scanner variation would account for this.

    It's not hard to doctor a scan. I did this in a few seconds: (card on the left is the REAL card)

    imageimage
    My Giants collection want list

    WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
  • GarabaldiGarabaldi Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭
    Well...that is scary.
  • 54topps54topps Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Well...that is scary. >>



    +1 for that. I did not think any one would do such a thing.

    Mathew,
    If the seller said the card was 50/50 you should send it back.
  • kgibsonkgibson Posts: 264 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Well...that is scary. >>



    +2

    Maybe we should let each other know of seller's that are doing this.
    "You know we just don't recognize the most significant moments of our lives while they're happening. Back then I thought, well, there'll be other days. I didn't realize that that was the only day."
  • artistlostartistlost Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭
    Did some digging and came up with this. I bought this card from the same seller and never checked the image sent to the card I received until now.

    The picture on the left is was provided to me before buying and the card on the right is the card I have in hand. And yes the cert number is covered up but it is the same.

    image

    mathew
    baseball & hockey junkie

    drugs of choice
    NHL hall of fame rookies
  • MeteoriteGuyMeteoriteGuy Posts: 7,140 ✭✭
    One time might be an error, or scanner fluke...although the card described and shown as 50/50...and not in hand is questionable. Two times, I think photo work is being done.
    Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards.
    Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
  • artistlostartistlost Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭
    Here is a better scan of the Dionne.

    image
    baseball & hockey junkie

    drugs of choice
    NHL hall of fame rookies
  • ThoseBackPagesThoseBackPages Posts: 4,871 ✭✭
    holy crap! this is actually frightening.
    Big Fan of: HOF Post War RC, Graded RCs
    WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
  • sportscardtheorysportscardtheory Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭
    Don't buy from that seller again, that's for sure. You should let everyone know who it is as well so no one else gets suckered into buying a card that's scan is doctored.
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  • sportscardtheorysportscardtheory Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭
    Isn't there software that can spot whether a picture or scan has been photoshopped? Now when looking more closely at the "original" Dionne scan, you can kind of see some strangeness going on in the white areas. Seems like this guy is literally moving the middle parts of cards just enough to warrant higher sales for better centered cards.
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  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭


    << <i>Isn't there software that can spot whether a picture or scan has been photoshopped? >>



    It's tricky, but you CAN do it by using Photoshop and messing with a bunch of different settings, like gamma, exposure, etc. Those things will help "exaggerate" any irregularities.

    This just catches the sloppy jobs, though.
    My Giants collection want list

    WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭
    If you invert the colors and zoom in, there is an obvious seam where the card has been doctored.

    image
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • CWCW Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭
    Yes, I would agree that this seller needs to be both outed here
    and confronted via email about this immediately.


  • jeffcbayjeffcbay Posts: 8,950 ✭✭✭✭
    Wait... is this an ebay seller or a member of this forum?
  • vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭
    ebay, sucks to have done an off ebay deal on the card though
  • EagleEyeKidEagleEyeKid Posts: 4,496 ✭✭


    Looks like the deal was done outside of ebay.

    The auction
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭


    << <i>If you invert the colors and zoom in, there is an obvious seam where the card has been doctored. >>



    Can't just go by that though, you can see a similar jpeg artifact on the bottom edge of the OP's "in-hand" scan.
    My Giants collection want list

    WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
  • brendanb438brendanb438 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>If you invert the colors and zoom in, there is an obvious seam where the card has been doctored. >>



    Can't just go by that though, you can see a similar jpeg artifact on the bottom edge of the OP's "in-hand" scan. >>




    Yeah I gave my wife the two images (she is a Graphic Designer/ Webpage Designer) and she did some things with them with her Mac and with her Adobe software. The picture he gave you has been doctored to make it look better centered. Overlaying the two cards they do not match up. She says he did a damn good job though, really really hard to see what he did. Whoever is doing this has some experience with manipulating images.

  • chadridgechadridge Posts: 143
    Wonderful, another reason to be afraid of buying on Ebay. It sounds silly now, but this type of manipulation never really occured to me before. Pretty smart to make it a subtle difference, it's hard to spot and VERY hard to prove, I'm guessing 90%+ of buyers would likely not notice. Sort of defeats the "Buy the card, not the holder" concept unless you are vigilant to the end.

    Nice job spotting this, and thanks for the heads up!

    Chad
    1955 Topps is done!
    working on 1956 Topps in PSA 6-7
  • gemintgemint Posts: 6,126 ✭✭✭✭✭
    These forums have some of the best detectives in the business, hands down! Nice work.
    https://ebay.com/sch/gemint/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092 ✭
    Wow that's shady as hell. I just did a measurement and I think he added 2 pixel columns on the right and removed 2 columns from the left.
  • gemintgemint Posts: 6,126 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Wow that's shady as hell. I just did a measurement and I think he added 2 pixel columns on the right and removed 2 columns from the left. >>



    Get ready. I'm sure there will be sellers sharpening corners in Photoshop if they aren't already doing so.
    https://ebay.com/sch/gemint/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
  • vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭
    image
  • brendanb438brendanb438 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭


    << <i>image >>




    Looks legit to me. image
  • fkwfkw Posts: 1,766 ✭✭
    same cards
    photoshoped scan in auction is what I see
    good detective work
  • TonyCTonyC Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭
    This is a disturbing development. People buy graded cards because they think they "know" what they are getting vs. a raw card. No fault of the grading companies, just someone found a way to game the system.

    This would be too labor intensive, and thus fees would have to go up, but this issue could be resolved if PSA loaded pictures of the cards when they left Newport Beach into their system so that if you plug in the cert #, it would show you the original picture.
    Collecting Tony Conigliaro
  • hockeycrazyhockeycrazy Posts: 309 ✭✭
    If link above to Ebay auction is correct, seller is well known in hockey circles and was a member here for quite some time...
  • artistlostartistlost Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If link above to Ebay auction is correct, seller is well known in hockey circles and was a member here for quite some time... >>



    The ebay auction is correct. That is the seller being discussed.
    baseball & hockey junkie

    drugs of choice
    NHL hall of fame rookies
  • artistlostartistlost Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭
    Edited as requested by a friend.
    baseball & hockey junkie

    drugs of choice
    NHL hall of fame rookies
  • artistlostartistlost Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭
    I have bought a LOT of cards from this seller of the past and I do not have any of the other scans he provided to me to compare (at least none that I have been able to find yet). Very scary to think how much extra I paid him for "high end for the grade" cards.

    mathew
    baseball & hockey junkie

    drugs of choice
    NHL hall of fame rookies
  • TonyCTonyC Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭
    The well-centered scans all look sun-bleached, but the in-hand cards do not, lending more credence to the accusation that these photos have been doctored.
    Collecting Tony Conigliaro
  • OAKESY25OAKESY25 Posts: 4,726 ✭✭✭
    wow.. at first I was thinking they were two seperate cards.. never gave thought that it was a manipulated scan..
    thats crazy
  • EagleEyeKidEagleEyeKid Posts: 4,496 ✭✭
    So did you talk to the seller Mathew?
    It's SNAD. Hope you get your money back.
  • bkingbking Posts: 3,095 ✭✭


    << <i>So did you talk to the seller Mathew?
    It's SNAD. Hope you get your money back. >>



    Do NOT SNAD this seller until you capture all the evidence and report it to Ebay. I bet those images go poof if he gets wind that he's been outed for altering.
    ----------------------
    Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
    ----------------------

    Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    Anything new about this issue?
    My Giants collection want list

    WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
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