<< <i>Why didn't they "flip" the label on all of the Mercanti's?
With the orientation presented you learn very little about the coin. It would seem more appropriate to me for the grade to be on the same side as the obverse and the signature on the same side as the reverse, the side of the coin Mercanti designed. Duh!
That would also be more aesthetically pleasing to me on the Mercanti's
bumanchu >>
"repost" >>
I agree. The details of the coin should be primary, the signature secondary. On the tombstones that don't have a signature, the black stripe prominently reads "25th Anniversary Set". If you look at the Mercanti signature labels, the black stripe gives Mercanti's engraver title. You have to flip it over to see the "25th Anniversary Set" text. What's really confusing is that the same signature label is also used on non-25th anniversary coins.
<< <i>Why didn't they "flip" the label on all of the Mercanti's?
With the orientation presented you learn very little about the coin. It would seem more appropriate to me for the grade to be on the same side as the obverse and the signature on the same side as the reverse, the side of the coin Mercanti designed. Duh!
That would also be more aesthetically pleasing to me on the Mercanti's
bumanchu >>
"repost" >>
Don't you know. What's his name's signature is much more important than the grade. Before these sets came out, I bet you could have asked 99% of the coin collectors what they think of Mercanti and they would reply, "I have never been there."
<< <i>Why didn't they "flip" the label on all of the Mercanti's?
With the orientation presented you learn very little about the coin. It would seem more appropriate to me for the grade to be on the same side as the obverse and the signature on the same side as the reverse, the side of the coin Mercanti designed. Duh!
That would also be more aesthetically pleasing to me on the Mercanti's
bumanchu >>
"repost" >>
Don't you know. What's his name's signature is much more important than the grade. Before these sets came out, I bet you could have asked 99% of the coin collectors what they think of Mercanti and they would reply, "I have never been there." >>
True enough, but I have a strong feeling that the pitch to Mr. Mercanti was that he is the star (he is, after all, the artistic talent), and the star's autograph is prominently featured on the front, not buried on the back.
I totally agree with the assessment that, on those slabs, it's not all about the grade, which is really all purists care about. If all you care about is the grade, then the slabs are a disappointment, since you have to flip to slab to even see the grade, and that's without ever having traveled to Mercanti. Then again, if that's all you care about, then you are not the target market for the slabs, and, as the saying goes, that's why Baskin-Robbins has 31 flavors.
For what it's worth, for the most part the after-market agrees with you, since the Mercantis have not been commanding a big premium to other slabs, and certainly not when taking into account the extra cost involved in producing them. In the final analysis, they are cool souvenirs for those into such things, and the nice thing is that you can pick them up in 69s, not merely for the same price as other slabs, but for basically the same price as opened, cherry picked sets.
Anybody else got a label that has the first "1" in 2011 with a blob on it and a broken "r" in First?
Drives me absolutely nuts every time I look at it, which is a lot because it's the slab I've been using repetitively the past three weekends trying to learn how to take good pics because eventually I'm going to sell my sets. (Yeah, I know, pic needs work).
I don't want to spend time, money and effort to get it corrected, but I think when ya go "70" that includes the label and its appearance is detrimental IMO.
Anyone know what it will cost me to get it fixed? - or will buyers not care?
<< <i>Anybody else got a label that has the first "1" in 2011 with a blob on it and a broken "r" in First?
Drives me absolutely nuts every time I look at it, which is a lot because it's the slab I've been using repetitively the past three weekends trying to learn how to take good pics because eventually I'm going to sell my sets. (Yeah, I know, pic needs work).
I don't want to spend time, money and effort to get it corrected, but I think when ya go "70" that includes the label and its appearance is detrimental IMO.
Anyone know what it will cost me to get it fixed? - or will buyers not care?
>>
If yout concerned about the label..then there is a gap on the "r" in First Strike..a little white spot.....It looks terrible.....!!!!!
<< <i>Sold a few Reverse proofs in PR70 as well as a few of the 2011-W proofs and uncs in 70, all of which for a decent premium over the FS (flag and non-flags). I didn't get any of the 2011 bullions or 2011-S coins in 70. Of course, my sample size is small (less than 10 coins) and my sales may have also been boosted because I was the only one selling the non-FS coins at the time... sort of had the monopoly >>
This sale on eBay kind of goes against your assumption:
<< <i>Sold a few Reverse proofs in PR70 as well as a few of the 2011-W proofs and uncs in 70, all of which for a decent premium over the FS (flag and non-flags). I didn't get any of the 2011 bullions or 2011-S coins in 70. Of course, my sample size is small (less than 10 coins) and my sales may have also been boosted because I was the only one selling the non-FS coins at the time... sort of had the monopoly >>
This sale on eBay kind of goes against your assumption:
<< <i>Sold a few Reverse proofs in PR70 as well as a few of the 2011-W proofs and uncs in 70, all of which for a decent premium over the FS (flag and non-flags). I didn't get any of the 2011 bullions or 2011-S coins in 70. Of course, my sample size is small (less than 10 coins) and my sales may have also been boosted because I was the only one selling the non-FS coins at the time... sort of had the monopoly >>
This sale on eBay kind of goes against your assumption:
This ble label non-first strike set sold for 200+ south of what the Flag & Signature sets are going for. >>
Wow, sort of surprised on that much of a difference between that NFS and some of the other FS sets being sold. That's the game you play when you sell via an auction though. But I also think that one sale doesn't really tell the full story. For example, I have my 2011-S Eagles in PCGS MS69 (NFS) listed still at $399.95... I just never lowered the Buy it Now from back when they were really going for that high. This morning I received an offer for $350 for one of them. I didn't know the going rate, so I looked at completed listings and saw many FS examples of all label types going for $250-$300 or so... nothing even close to $350. Accordingly, I took that offer. Again, I also wouldn't say that this one sale also tells the full story either.
<< <i>Sold a few Reverse proofs in PR70 as well as a few of the 2011-W proofs and uncs in 70, all of which for a decent premium over the FS (flag and non-flags). I didn't get any of the 2011 bullions or 2011-S coins in 70. Of course, my sample size is small (less than 10 coins) and my sales may have also been boosted because I was the only one selling the non-FS coins at the time... sort of had the monopoly >>
This sale on eBay kind of goes against your assumption:
This ble label non-first strike set sold for 200+ south of what the Flag & Signature sets are going for. >>
Wow, sort of surprised on that much of a difference between that NFS and some of the other FS sets being sold. That's the game you play when you sell via an auction though. But I also think that one sale doesn't really tell the full story. For example, I have my 2011-S Eagles in PCGS MS69 (NFS) listed still at $399.95... I just never lowered the Buy it Now from back when they were really going for that high. This morning I received an offer for $350 for one of them. I didn't know the going rate, so I looked at completed listings and saw many FS examples of all label types going for $250-$300 or so... nothing even close to $350. Accordingly, I took that offer. Again, I also wouldn't say that this one sale also tells the full story either. >>
Agreed that one isolated sale can never tell a full story, but I think your experience is closer to how this is going to play out. While FS normally carries a premium because it represents a limited subset of an entire population, this set is unique in that it completely sold out in one day, and the vast majority of the whole population shipped in time to receive the highly coveted FS designation. Add to that the well documented grading variation between FS and non-FS in the pop reports, and you have the recipe for a unique situation in which the non-FS 70s should sell for a premium to FS. This is due not only to the much smaller population of non-FS, but more due to the fact that there is a significantly smaller ratio of non-FS 70s as compared to FS.
With over 36,000 sets graded between NGC and PCGS, only around 500 are PCGS non-FS, indicating that only a tiny minority of the 100,000 minted, as well as of those ultimately slabbed, will ever be PCGS non-FS. To take it one step further, only 25-36% of 454-505 non-FS PCGS coins graded 70,as compared to 52-55% of 10,358-11,004 FS coins. Based on these numbers, under what circumstances should FS be worth a premium to non-FS, assuming one cares about the label at all?
In fact, the only thing that will keep the non-FS 70s from being worth a lot more than FS is the ability to have an FS 70 relabeled to non-FS for $30. That, plus, oh yeah, the fact that a given PCGS 70 should be worth exactly the same as the same given PCGS 70 coin in another slab, regardless of the label. If collectors really place a value on the labels based on factors such as relative scarcity of the label, then the non-FS 70s should be the big winners, and yet they probably won't be. Nevertheless, once the numbers revealed in the pop reports become more widely dispersed, it's difficult to make a case that any variation of FS should sell for more than the least common label with the smallest ratio of 70s.
You might be right NJCoin if everyone who buys coins also reads this forum and agrees with your opinion. However, the majority buys do think the first strike coins are a better coin to buy and don't really know the plain-jane label may be scarcer. The other aspect is the FS label looks a lot better to the regular collector and the "bling" label draws more buyer, thus more demand.
IMOP. I believe the majority of buyers will buy the FS label, especially if they cost less, which illini420 claims. Maybe he is experiencing this with private sales but I sure don't find the evidence to support this on ebay.
<< <i>Does this multi label availability make the lately less frequently used phrase "modern cr@p" pop back into your mind? >>
Nope! I wonder if the bankers who were stashing those shinny classics you are so proud of back in the day had your mind set. NOPE again. Otherwise, you wouldn't have those shinny classics as they were "modern cr@p" back then.
<< <i>Does this multi label availability make the lately less frequently used phrase "modern cr@p" pop back into your mind? >>
Nope! I wonder if the bankers who were stashing those shinny classics you are so proud of back in the day had your mind set. NOPE again. Otherwise, you wouldn't have those shinny classics as they were "modern cr@p" back then. >>
Just to clarify, I am a modern collector--you are preaching to the choir!
However, I am trying to be objective and could see where this label fiasco could turn off some and I do not see it as beneficial going forward JMHO
<< <i>Does this multi label availability make the lately less frequently used phrase "modern cr@p" pop back into your mind? >>
Nope! I wonder if the bankers who were stashing those shinny classics you are so proud of back in the day had your mind set. NOPE again. Otherwise, you wouldn't have those shinny classics as they were "modern cr@p" back then. >>
Just to clarify, I am a modern collector--you are preaching to the choir!
However, I am trying to be objective and could see where this label fiasco could turn off some and I do not see it as beneficial going forward JMHO
bumanchu >>
I fact, I said that from day one when I saw the FS signature label. I thought to my self, WTF! But, they seem to be doing well. In fact, it seems the signayure are doing best, Flags next, Black bar, then plain-jane. On ebay that is.
<< <i>You must not be selling these on ebay. The last NFS MS69 2011-S sold went for $239 but that was a couple weeks ago. >>
I did sell it on eBay today. But since I had multiples listed in a single buy it now, the prices realized won't be searchable until all of the items in that listing have been sold. That way, people can't see what offers I've already taken on a Buy it Now where I am still trying to sell additional copies.
Similarly, the NFS 2011-P graded PCGS PR70 that I sold for $899.95 earlier on didn't show up in the complete listings since I still have a couple for sale.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Why didn't they "flip" the label on all of the Mercanti's?
With the orientation presented you learn very little about the coin. It would seem more appropriate to me for the grade to be on the same side as the obverse and the signature on the same side as the reverse, the side of the coin Mercanti designed. Duh!
That would also be more aesthetically pleasing to me on the Mercanti's
bumanchu >>
"repost" >>
I agree. The details of the coin should be primary, the signature secondary. On the tombstones that don't have a signature, the black stripe prominently reads "25th Anniversary Set". If you look at the Mercanti signature labels, the black stripe gives Mercanti's engraver title. You have to flip it over to see the "25th Anniversary Set" text. What's really confusing is that the same signature label is also used on non-25th anniversary coins.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why didn't they "flip" the label on all of the Mercanti's?
With the orientation presented you learn very little about the coin. It would seem more appropriate to me for the grade to be on the same side as the obverse and the signature on the same side as the reverse, the side of the coin Mercanti designed. Duh!
That would also be more aesthetically pleasing to me on the Mercanti's
bumanchu >>
"repost" >>
Don't you know. What's his name's signature is much more important than the grade. Before these sets came out, I bet you could have asked 99% of the coin collectors what they think of Mercanti and they would reply, "I have never been there."
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Why didn't they "flip" the label on all of the Mercanti's?
With the orientation presented you learn very little about the coin. It would seem more appropriate to me for the grade to be on the same side as the obverse and the signature on the same side as the reverse, the side of the coin Mercanti designed. Duh!
That would also be more aesthetically pleasing to me on the Mercanti's
bumanchu >>
"repost" >>
Don't you know. What's his name's signature is much more important than the grade. Before these sets came out, I bet you could have asked 99% of the coin collectors what they think of Mercanti and they would reply, "I have never been there."
I totally agree with the assessment that, on those slabs, it's not all about the grade, which is really all purists care about. If all you care about is the grade, then the slabs are a disappointment, since you have to flip to slab to even see the grade, and that's without ever having traveled to Mercanti.
For what it's worth, for the most part the after-market agrees with you, since the Mercantis have not been commanding a big premium to other slabs, and certainly not when taking into account the extra cost involved in producing them. In the final analysis, they are cool souvenirs for those into such things, and the nice thing is that you can pick them up in 69s, not merely for the same price as other slabs, but for basically the same price as opened, cherry picked sets.
Drives me absolutely nuts every time I look at it, which is a lot because it's the slab I've been using repetitively the past three weekends trying to learn how to take good pics because eventually I'm going to sell my sets. (Yeah, I know, pic needs work).
I don't want to spend time, money and effort to get it corrected, but I think when ya go "70" that includes the label and its appearance is detrimental IMO.
Anyone know what it will cost me to get it fixed? - or will buyers not care?
<< <i>Anybody else got a label that has the first "1" in 2011 with a blob on it and a broken "r" in First?
Drives me absolutely nuts every time I look at it, which is a lot because it's the slab I've been using repetitively the past three weekends trying to learn how to take good pics because eventually I'm going to sell my sets. (Yeah, I know, pic needs work).
I don't want to spend time, money and effort to get it corrected, but I think when ya go "70" that includes the label and its appearance is detrimental IMO.
Anyone know what it will cost me to get it fixed? - or will buyers not care?
If yout concerned about the label..then there is a gap on the "r" in First Strike..a little white spot.....It looks terrible.....!!!!!
<< <i>If yout concerned about the label..then there is a gap on the "r" in First Strike..a little white spot.....It looks terrible.....!!!!! >>
Yeah, I already said the r in First is broken. Thanks.
<< <i>Sold a few Reverse proofs in PR70 as well as a few of the 2011-W proofs and uncs in 70, all of which for a decent premium over the FS (flag and non-flags). I didn't get any of the 2011 bullions or 2011-S coins in 70. Of course, my sample size is small (less than 10 coins) and my sales may have also been boosted because I was the only one selling the non-FS coins at the time... sort of had the monopoly >>
This sale on eBay kind of goes against your assumption:
Low price - regular label
This ble label non-first strike set sold for 200+ south of what the Flag & Signature sets are going for.
<< <i>
<< <i>Sold a few Reverse proofs in PR70 as well as a few of the 2011-W proofs and uncs in 70, all of which for a decent premium over the FS (flag and non-flags). I didn't get any of the 2011 bullions or 2011-S coins in 70. Of course, my sample size is small (less than 10 coins) and my sales may have also been boosted because I was the only one selling the non-FS coins at the time... sort of had the monopoly >>
This sale on eBay kind of goes against your assumption:
Low price - regular label
This ble label non-first strike set sold for 200+ south of what the Flag & Signature sets are going for. >>
How about this one to counter the non-first strike set...
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>
<< <i>Sold a few Reverse proofs in PR70 as well as a few of the 2011-W proofs and uncs in 70, all of which for a decent premium over the FS (flag and non-flags). I didn't get any of the 2011 bullions or 2011-S coins in 70. Of course, my sample size is small (less than 10 coins) and my sales may have also been boosted because I was the only one selling the non-FS coins at the time... sort of had the monopoly >>
This sale on eBay kind of goes against your assumption:
Low price - regular label
This ble label non-first strike set sold for 200+ south of what the Flag & Signature sets are going for. >>
Wow, sort of surprised on that much of a difference between that NFS and some of the other FS sets being sold. That's the game you play when you sell via an auction though. But I also think that one sale doesn't really tell the full story. For example, I have my 2011-S Eagles in PCGS MS69 (NFS) listed still at $399.95... I just never lowered the Buy it Now from back when they were really going for that high. This morning I received an offer for $350 for one of them. I didn't know the going rate, so I looked at completed listings and saw many FS examples of all label types going for $250-$300 or so... nothing even close to $350. Accordingly, I took that offer. Again, I also wouldn't say that this one sale also tells the full story either.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Sold a few Reverse proofs in PR70 as well as a few of the 2011-W proofs and uncs in 70, all of which for a decent premium over the FS (flag and non-flags). I didn't get any of the 2011 bullions or 2011-S coins in 70. Of course, my sample size is small (less than 10 coins) and my sales may have also been boosted because I was the only one selling the non-FS coins at the time... sort of had the monopoly >>
This sale on eBay kind of goes against your assumption:
Low price - regular label
This ble label non-first strike set sold for 200+ south of what the Flag & Signature sets are going for. >>
Wow, sort of surprised on that much of a difference between that NFS and some of the other FS sets being sold. That's the game you play when you sell via an auction though. But I also think that one sale doesn't really tell the full story. For example, I have my 2011-S Eagles in PCGS MS69 (NFS) listed still at $399.95... I just never lowered the Buy it Now from back when they were really going for that high. This morning I received an offer for $350 for one of them. I didn't know the going rate, so I looked at completed listings and saw many FS examples of all label types going for $250-$300 or so... nothing even close to $350. Accordingly, I took that offer. Again, I also wouldn't say that this one sale also tells the full story either. >>
Agreed that one isolated sale can never tell a full story, but I think your experience is closer to how this is going to play out. While FS normally carries a premium because it represents a limited subset of an entire population, this set is unique in that it completely sold out in one day, and the vast majority of the whole population shipped in time to receive the highly coveted FS designation. Add to that the well documented grading variation between FS and non-FS in the pop reports, and you have the recipe for a unique situation in which the non-FS 70s should sell for a premium to FS. This is due not only to the much smaller population of non-FS, but more due to the fact that there is a significantly smaller ratio of non-FS 70s as compared to FS.
With over 36,000 sets graded between NGC and PCGS, only around 500 are PCGS non-FS, indicating that only a tiny minority of the 100,000 minted, as well as of those ultimately slabbed, will ever be PCGS non-FS. To take it one step further, only 25-36% of 454-505 non-FS PCGS coins graded 70,as compared to 52-55% of 10,358-11,004 FS coins. Based on these numbers, under what circumstances should FS be worth a premium to non-FS, assuming one cares about the label at all?
In fact, the only thing that will keep the non-FS 70s from being worth a lot more than FS is the ability to have an FS 70 relabeled to non-FS for $30. That, plus, oh yeah, the fact that a given PCGS 70 should be worth exactly the same as the same given PCGS 70 coin in another slab, regardless of the label. If collectors really place a value on the labels based on factors such as relative scarcity of the label, then the non-FS 70s should be the big winners, and yet they probably won't be. Nevertheless, once the numbers revealed in the pop reports become more widely dispersed, it's difficult to make a case that any variation of FS should sell for more than the least common label with the smallest ratio of 70s.
IMOP. I believe the majority of buyers will buy the FS label, especially if they cost less, which illini420 claims. Maybe he is experiencing this with private sales but I sure don't find the evidence to support this on ebay.
Does this multi label availability make the lately less frequently used phrase "modern cr@p" pop back into your mind?
Has damage been done?
<< <i>Does this multi label availability make the lately less frequently used phrase "modern cr@p" pop back into your mind? >>
Nope! I wonder if the bankers who were stashing those shinny classics you are so proud of back in the day had your mind set. NOPE again. Otherwise, you wouldn't have those shinny classics as they were "modern cr@p" back then.
<< <i>
<< <i>Does this multi label availability make the lately less frequently used phrase "modern cr@p" pop back into your mind? >>
Nope! I wonder if the bankers who were stashing those shinny classics you are so proud of back in the day had your mind set. NOPE again. Otherwise, you wouldn't have those shinny classics as they were "modern cr@p" back then. >>
Just to clarify, I am a modern collector--you are preaching to the choir!
However, I am trying to be objective and could see where this label fiasco could turn off some and I do not see it as beneficial going forward
JMHO
bumanchu
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Does this multi label availability make the lately less frequently used phrase "modern cr@p" pop back into your mind? >>
Nope! I wonder if the bankers who were stashing those shinny classics you are so proud of back in the day had your mind set. NOPE again. Otherwise, you wouldn't have those shinny classics as they were "modern cr@p" back then. >>
Just to clarify, I am a modern collector--you are preaching to the choir!
However, I am trying to be objective and could see where this label fiasco could turn off some and I do not see it as beneficial going forward
JMHO
bumanchu >>
I fact, I said that from day one when I saw the FS signature label. I thought to my self, WTF! But, they seem to be doing well. In fact, it seems the signayure are doing best, Flags next, Black bar, then plain-jane. On ebay that is.
<< <i>You must not be selling these on ebay. The last NFS MS69 2011-S sold went for $239 but that was a couple weeks ago. >>
I did sell it on eBay today. But since I had multiples listed in a single buy it now, the prices realized won't be searchable until all of the items in that listing have been sold. That way, people can't see what offers I've already taken on a Buy it Now where I am still trying to sell additional copies.
Similarly, the NFS 2011-P graded PCGS PR70 that I sold for $899.95 earlier on didn't show up in the complete listings since I still have a couple for sale.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>Just to clarify, I am a modern collector--you are preaching to the choir!
However, I am trying to be objective and could see where this label fiasco could turn off some and I do not see it as beneficial going forward
JMHO >>
<< <i>Just when modern coins were gaining some respect .....
Does this multi label availability make the lately less frequently used phrase "modern cr@p" pop back into your mind?
Has damage been done? >>
Gee, why didn't I think of that? Oh yeah, that's right, I already did.............
bumanchu