Raw Cards on Ebay

Juggs

I'm sure this has been posted a billion times, but how comfortable are you guys buying raw cards on ebay for, say, pre-74?

I've been wanting to pick stuff up which I always see on ebay but I never feel comfortable with the scans I see. It'd be better to hit up a show to buy stuff so I can see it in person, but there's never a show around my area that I know of, so I don't have a lot of options.

Opinions are appreciated.

JoeBanzai

Ever see the movie "The Big Country" with Gregory Peck? His character asks Ramon if he has any advise before trying to ride the horse named "Old Thunder", advise was...................

DON'T DO IT!

Seriously, I am sure there are good deals on raw cards on eBay. I won't be bidding against you on very many.

Joe

itzagoner

really depends how often you want to shred a haystack.

jeffcbay

Stay away from anyone named "Waverly"

gemint

My experience is that any dealers that have a reputation for selling accurately graded raw cards (and sometimes even those that don't have a good reputation) will cost you more than the cost of buying one already graded. I've seen raw cards go for 2x the price of a PSA 9! There are some good deals to be had on eBay but it requires taking on some risk and finding the needle in a haystack.

orioles93

i have bought hundreds of raw cards on ebay and have never had trouble with sending any of them into PSA. You just have to do your research on the sellers and feel comfortable with the pics they show. My only advice is to not just bid on somehing really quick before looking it over really well.

bigreddog

Most All are overgraded and overstated. That being said, I have found a handful of reliable sellers that I trust.
Ive also picked up killer raws from a few trust worthy board members here.

It really depends on the grade of card you are looking for. Graded cards could be a safer bet, but DON"t be fooled into a false sense of security with them either.

As someone who has cracked out 100's of graded cards, its still a crap shoot with the inconsistant grading from these companies. NEVER, NEVER buy the card just because of the label or flip.

Its a crazy world out there!

John

fiveniner

I have purchased many raw cards on Ebay and would say that many are over graded however there are 3 dealers that I feel very comfortable buying from without hesitation,fscards1,Mike Wheat, and Shoe Box cards there are others however these three are always on the dot with their grading IMO.

BaltimoreYankee

I think if you go in knowing the cards will generally be a lesser grade than advertised you can do well.

I have had success with: gregmorriscards (seem to be just slightly less condition than advertised), klinger83 (not graded as well as Greg Morris) and newenglandsportscards (seem to be the most accurately graded but most stuff is BIN so less deals to be had).

bking

<< <i>I'm sure this has been posted a billion times, but how comfortable are you guys buying raw cards on ebay for, say, pre-74?

I've been wanting to pick stuff up which I always see on ebay but I never feel comfortable with the scans I see. It'd be better to hit up a show to buy stuff so I can see it in person, but there's never a show around my area that I know of, so I don't have a lot of options.

Opinions are appreciated. >>



I'll second everything that's been said here, and just add that the best thing to do is experiment a bit. MOts of the good raw sellers (and the bad ones) run set breaks all the time. Stick your toe in the water with them, buy a few commons you need, and make your own determination as to their accuracy. Then, once you know who you can rely on to be accurate and who you need to subtract a bit from, you can buy with more confidence.

EDIT: I can also vouch for gregmorris; as a rule, I never get any clunkers from him. I probably run 50/50 on cards graded one notch too high/spot on.

WinPitcher

If you are looking for raw cards to grade then I agree it's a crap shoot
especially for high grade. If you are looking for EX graded cards for a raw set
then I see no problem. Just make sure you have a scan and the seller
sends what is shown.

bking

<< <i>

<< <i>I'm sure this has been posted a billion times, but how comfortable are you guys buying raw cards on ebay for, say, pre-74?

I've been wanting to pick stuff up which I always see on ebay but I never feel comfortable with the scans I see. It'd be better to hit up a show to buy stuff so I can see it in person, but there's never a show around my area that I know of, so I don't have a lot of options.

Opinions are appreciated. >>



I'll second everything that's been said here, and just add that the best thing to do is experiment a bit. Lots of the good raw sellers (and the bad ones) run set breaks all the time. Stick your toe in the water with them, buy a few commons you need, and make your own determination as to their accuracy. Then, once you know who you can rely on to be accurate and who you need to subtract a bit from, you can buy with more confidence.

EDIT: I can also vouch for gregmorris; as a rule, I never get any clunkers from him. I probably run 50/50 on cards graded one notch too high/spot on. >>



EDIT#2: The bigger risk that I have found, and another good reason to test sellers before diving in, is that a lot of them flat-out ignore centering when advertising a grade. In my experience, if a seller will do that when the front clearly shows to be OC, then you know he isn't taking the back into account at all.

otwcards

I think the best thing to know and understand about buying raw vintage cards is that the grading standard is typically NOT consistent with the standards for TPG's. It is not uncommon for a card with less than ideal centering to be listed as NM/MT. The grading definitions are sketchy and inconsistent, but if you're looking for sharp cards and centering isn't as much of a concern, then you should be able to navigate through the crap and find raw cards that will suit your needs.

There are sellers that provide high resolution scans of what they are offering and some even provide back images. While you may not agree with the accuracy of the grade(s), you should be able to make a reasonable determination of the condition from the scans provided. Just be certain that the image(s) are of the card you will receive and not a "stock" image.

Most bulk sellers tend to grade based upon corner wear rather than centering, so be certain to examine the scan(s) provided and ask questions. Also keep in mind that you do have recourse when paying through PayPal if you do not receive what was advertised.

WalterSobchak

Like others have said, examine the scans carefully. If you do that alone, most of the time you will be fine. After some trial and error, you will probably have whittled it down to about half a dozen sellers that are your go-to guys for raw. What generally works for me if I don't know the seller is looking at the DSR rating for 'item as described'. 4.9 or better, no exceptions. Anything less I'm moving on no matter how good the scan may look.

Also, know what your risk threshold is for buying individual cards without the TPG 'guarantee'. Mine has settled in over the years at about the $50-$75 range.

For the high-volume EBay sellers, I agree gregmorriscards will give you a fair shake. Ditto for andiehaley and apple383.

This guy isn't as high-volume, but I have to throw some love towards 'bsugarman' in this post too. I recently bought four '63 Topps singles he advertised as "NM". I was impressed as hell with the quality. I think NM would be the absolute worst-case scenario for any of the four if I sent them in. He definitely hasn't seen the last of my money!

MilehighHOF

I've purchased over 100 raw cards on ebay and have had very few issues. Lots of good information has already been shared in this thread, but I have a few things to add:

1. Trimmed cards - twice I've had issues getting trimmed cards. One of the first things I do when I get a raw card is to make sure it is the right size. The first time I received a trimmed card the seller was easy to work with and gave me my money back. I am still dealing with the other trimmed card I got.

2. Creases/wrinkles - small wrinkles and creases are often hard (or impossible) to spot in pictures so if the seller doesn't mention that the card is crease/wrinkle free I will now ask them before bidding. I learned this one the hard way.

3. Bait and switch - when your card arrives in the mail make sure it's the one you won/purchased. Just today I received a 56 Aaron in the mail that I was expecting to be in the EXMT range. Unfortunately it will be lucky to be VGEX. The card I won appeared to have 4 fairly sharp corners and was off centered toward the botton. The one I received was off centered toward the top and has 4 garbage corners. I am in the process of trying to resolve this one with the seller.

All that being said I will continue to buy raw cards off ebay. I just sent in a few today that I think will grade out 2-3 grades higher than what I paid for them. There are deals to be had if you do your homework and are patient. Also, remember the old saying that if it seems too good to be true that it probably is applys to ebay. I've often not bid on a card because something didn't seem right.....

wrighty

I agree with all of the above and I'll just add to read the descriptions well in addition to reviewing the scans. Recently I bought a large starter lot of cards for a set approx. 600 cards all different with stars. It was described something along the lines of "EX/MT with very few below that grade". The description was accurate because they were mostly EX/MT, unfortunately every listed star was in the below EX/MT category many closer to G/VG with creases. The moral ask questions before buying, read the descriptions, view the scans, and identify good sellers and save them as your favorites. Good luck

bigreddog

I would have to disagree with the centering issue mentioned. I disagree as well with the need for the O/C qualifier. Everyone has their own tolerence for centering.
A card can have all the sharp qualities and be called NM-MT or even MINT reguardless of centering. The centering is the most highly visable aspect of any card. While other surface and corner issues can be less visable or even hid in the scans, The centering is easily seen by all and each can make their own call on weather the centering is acceptable for them or not.

John

Juggs

<< <i>I have purchased many raw cards on Ebay and would say that many are over graded however there are 3 dealers that I feel very comfortable buying from without hesitation,fscards1,Mike Wheat, and Shoe Box cards there are others however these three are always on the dot with their grading IMO. >>

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check those three sellers out.

WinPitcher

I could never call a card that is OC 'Mint'.


The best would be NM


Just my opinion.

Juggs

This is all tremendous info. I really appreciate it.

Juggs

Thank a lot to everyone who made suggestions in this thread. Special thanks to those of you who suggested gregmorriscards. Fantastic stuff. The picture below is of the stuff I picked up since I posted this. Sorry I don't have a scanner, you'll have to deal with my phone camera.

Greg Morris really came through. I'll be adding to my Kaline collection from him over the next few months.

trex

As everyone else has said, and I'll echo...be careful!!!! Everyone and they're brother wants to call a card NM and in actuality they're EX at best. Greg Morris is good, and I've had good luck with New England Cards, he tends to rate NM off the chart for centering for my liking, but if you can find one with good centering, to me anyways, he's "nuts on" or politically correct...on the mark.

Juggs

<< <i>As everyone else has said, and I'll echo...be careful!!!! Everyone and they're brother wants to call a card NM and in actuality they're EX at best. Greg Morris is good, and I've had good luck with New England Cards, he tends to rate NM off the chart for centering for my liking, but if you can find one with good centering, to me anyways, he's "nuts on" or politically correct...on the mark. >>

Thanks. I'm really happy with what I got. The scans were good, the descriptions were good, and the cards are good. I haven't checked out New England Cards, but I've got Greg Morris and fscards on the saved list. I feel like, based on their rep, the scans, etc, I can trust them.

trex

Looks like nice cards. Now get a scanner and put them up and let us pick them apart. No....really looks like you did really good.

trex

I have had good luck with FScards too. I'll try to think of some more...but if you hear the name Waverly.....run away....fast.

bking

<< <i>I would have to disagree with the centering issue mentioned. I disagree as well with the need for the O/C qualifier. Everyone has their own tolerence for centering.
A card can have all the sharp qualities and be called NM-MT or even MINT reguardless of centering. The centering is the most highly visable aspect of any card. While other surface and corner issues can be less visable or even hid in the scans, The centering is easily seen by all and each can make their own call on weather the centering is acceptable for them or not.

John >>



Yeah, but the problem is this - when a seller can advertise an obviously 80/20 (or worse) card as Nm-Mt, and doesn't provide a back scan, the odds are that more than a handful of the ones that DO have well-centered fronts will also have back centering issues.

NOTE: I can join Jason in recommending bsugarman. Just bought two NM 63's from him as an experiment, and the grading is spot-on.

jeffcbay

Wow your feet look almost the same size as a baseball card!

larryallen73

Depends on what you are looking for. If you are not planning to grade them then you can get some nice looking cards on Ebay. Plus low value cards can be bought safely on Ebay. If you plan to grade them I would not buy raw on Ebay if the card has any value. Becuase the odds are 99 to 1 if it had potential value graded it's been sent in before and didn't come back what they hoped or the seller sees a very small flaw that is not visible on the scan.

thunderdan

How much does Greg Morris charge for shipping? And what is his shipping DSR? Because if it's $3 shipping and he still has a 5 DSR, then we have a new thread on our hands.

Bear48

Over the years I've bought a small truck load of raw cards on eBay. I've suffered many disappointments, usually because the scan was of poor quality (don't be afraid to ask for a better one) or I didn't read the description carefully (exercise impulse control, if possible). Now, I usually just buy my raw stuff from the same dealers. They are reliable and if I am unhappy they are quick to refund my money.

DWest

I got suckered once by NESC on a 1972 and 1973 "set break". Bought about 120 cards in one day that were all advertised as NM/MT+ or better. A few were listed as possible GEMs. Many were submitted to PSA and only a few were graded as 8's (none higher). Most were EOT.

thedutymon

<< <i>I got suckered once by NESC on a 1972 and 1973 "set break". Bought about 120 cards in one day that were all advertised as NM/MT+ or better. A few were listed as possible GEMs. Many were submitted to PSA and only a few were graded as 8's (none higher). Most were EOT. >>



Ding Ding Ding................We have a Winner!!

NESC....Say it ain't so!!! Trimmed.........Say it ain't So !!!!!

YeeHah

Neil

Juggs

<< <i>How much does Greg Morris charge for shipping? And what is his shipping DSR? Because if it's $3 shipping and he still has a 5 DSR, then we have a new thread on our hands. >>

He charged me $3.00 for all of the cards you see, except the three I bought elsewhere.

What is "DSR"?

itzagoner

lol. Detailed Seller Ratings, or Dinged Seller Ratings.

depends whom you ask.

don't mind thunderdan. he also enjoys real trainwrecks.

RonBurgundy

I've batted about .333 with Greg Morris, including a 74 "NM-MT" Aaron that had a giant wax stain on the back. So y'all have fun with him, I bypass his set breaks especially since most of them have the stars & tough cards removed.

thunderdan

<< <i>He charged me $3.00 for all of the cards you see, except the three I bought elsewhere.

What is "DSR"? >>



Sounds like a 5 star transaction, assuming your shipment arrived in 2 days or less. Otherwise, it would only be 4 stars.

Juggs

<< <i>lol. Detailed Seller Ratings, or Dinged Seller Ratings.

depends whom you ask.

don't mind thunderdan. he also enjoys real trainwrecks. >>

Ah, I have no idea what you guys are talking about half the time.

All I know is that I'd trade all of my cards for 2, maybe 3 good solid minutes with the girl above your name.

Foo3112

I'm not really big on buying on eBay unless the auction has a zoom option. Ive purchased enough to know that people usually hype up the cards in the title but as long as they have a scan, then that's all I can go buy. There are a few that Ive purchased that came with a little dinger here and there that the scanner didn't/possibly couldn't pick up but nothing to cry over. Always expect less and that way you'll rarely be disappointed is my thing.

Blackie

I feel comfortable buying raw cards from certain sellers. I like battersbox and gregmorris

JMDVM

I'm batting 33% with Greg Morris, but his service is excellent and he caps shipping at $3. He does sell graded cards, so you have to assume he grades the best stuff
I no longer buy from Battersbox...no comment.
And correct me if I'm wrong but I think New England Sports Cards is a subsidiary of 4 Sharp Corners

SDavid

IME, the "set break" dealers on ebay are fine for filling in raw sets but not worth it for raw submissions. Nothing wrong with that, btw.

thedutymon

<< <i>
And correct me if I'm wrong but I think New England Sports Cards is a subsidiary of 4 Sharp Corners >>



When the Exacto slips a little bit at 4SC they move them down to their Wholesale ID, NESC !!

YeeHah

Neil

Blackie

<< <i>

<< <i>
And correct me if I'm wrong but I think New England Sports Cards is a subsidiary of 4 Sharp Corners >>



When the Exacto slips a little bit at 4SC they move them down to their Wholesale ID, NESC !!

YeeHah

Neil >>



Neil your right........learned that the hard way when a few cards come back trimmed.