Canadian Dollar

ajaan · January 4, 2012 4:27AM

Perhaps a bad image, but I don't see this coin grading MS65 at PCGS or NGC.

1954 $ on eBay

DoubleEagle59 · January 4, 2012 4:37AM

This is a great example of the differences between ICCS and the US TPG's.

I might agree with you that PCGS would not 65 this coin, but my reasoning you may not like.

I bet you if you louped this coin at 10X or more, you would find almost no marks on the surface, such that, if this coin had luster it would be so good, it would most likely grade ms66 at PCGS!

I've seen many, many such ICCS ms65 coins as these, in my time.

These are actually my favorite type of toned coin. (Pristine, original, albeit a 'thicker' toning that does mute the luster, but ultra-original to say the least).

I've actually been burned many times because I've purchased raw a US coin that would ICCS grade as an ms65 (as in this case) but after submitting to the US TPGs, I've received anything from an ms62 to an ms64.

I would much rather have a 'flawless' low luster (and original) coin like this than a more marked up (technically ms64) coin with brilliant luster (read 'dipped') that would get bumped up a grade to ms65 at the US TPGs./

That's my 'Canadian' opinion.

ajaan · January 4, 2012 4:44AM

DE59,
Do you think this is a recent ICCS graded coin?

JamesMurray · January 4, 2012 4:56AM

I'm not knocking the coin,but is that fingerprints in front of her face and also appears to be on the reverse ?

DoubleEagle59 · January 4, 2012 5:00AM

<< DE59,
Do you think this is a recent ICCS graded coin? >>

I don't know.

I just know from experience with this type of toning, you'll be pleasantly surprised at how mark free the coin will be.

DoubleEagle59 · January 4, 2012 5:02AM

<< I'm not knocking the coin,but is that fingerprints in front of her face and also appears to be on the reverse ? >>

Very possible and most likely.

Fingerprints has never stopped me from buying an original toned coin such as this.

On the other hand, a blast white, full frosty coin that has a fingerprint would cause me concern.

DoubleEagle59 · January 4, 2012 5:09AM

Her's a coin I tried Anacs, NGC then PCGS and received grades from ms62 to ms64.

Maybe it's not easy to tell from the picture, but technically, the coin is an ms66 to ms67.

It's almost perfect.

The toning is full and complete and therefore the luster is muted.

I personally find the grade of not even an ms65 from three US TPG's to be an insult and totally wrong in grading philosophy.

That is why I say the TPG's promote dipping of coins, because they reward luster while they penalize coins exhibiting original toning that has less luster.

JamesMurray · January 4, 2012 5:24AM

<< 

<< I'm not knocking the coin,but is that fingerprints in front of her face and also appears to be on the reverse ? >>

Very possible and most likely.

Fingerprints has never stopped me from buying an original toned coin such as this.

On the other hand, a blast white, full frosty coin that has a fingerprint would cause me concern. >>

Thanks Double Eagle59 , just trying to learn , cheers mate

ajaan · January 4, 2012 5:28AM

I once owned a very beautifully toned 1946 Specimen set that had a light fingerprint on the Dollar. I actually thought it added something to the coin.

Pokermandude · January 4, 2012 7:32AM

<< Her's a coin I tried Anacs, NGC then PCGS and received grades from ms62 to ms64.

Maybe it's not easy to tell from the picture, but technically, the coin is an ms66 to ms67.

It's almost perfect.

The toning is full and complete and therefore the luster is muted.

I personally find the grade of not even an ms65 from three US TPG's to be an insult and totally wrong in grading philosophy.

That is why I say the TPG's promote dipping of coins, because they reward luster while they penalize coins exhibiting original toning that has less luster.

>>

Looks like a solid 65 to me. Not the most attractive toning, but certainly not bad enough enough to warrant a drop in grade.

I think what we are seeing is market vs technical grade. ICCS was/is all about the technical grade. Like the coin in the OP, I am sure technically it is a solid 65. Personally, I'd prefer that TPGs give a technical grade and leave it to the market to determine what premium/discount should be given for eye appeal.

I too agree with the notion that PCGS and NGC market grading practices promote the dipping of coins with negative, neutral, and even slightly positive toning. Kind of sad in my opinion. I really prefer coins with a more original skin. I'll admit that blast white with amazing lustre is attractive. But its the mindset that coins should stay this way forever leads them to getting dipped over and over, which will eventually mute the lustre. Then these previously great coins will join the masses of the dead, lustreless white coins as the dreck of the marketplace.

Canadian Dollar

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