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2012 HOF Results-Updated to 86 Ballots

markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭
Baseball Think Factory has the results from 59 Ballots:

93.2 - Larkin
62.7 - J. Morris
59.3 - Bagwell
59.3 - T. Raines
45.8 - Trammell
40.7- E. Martinez
39.0 - Lee Smith
25.4 - L. Walker
22.0 - McGriff
20.3 - McGwire
15.3 - D. Murphy
10.2 - R. Palmiero
8.5 - Mattingly
3.4 - J. Gonzalez
1.7 - V. Castilla
1.7 - Bernie Williams !
1.7 - P. Rose (write-in)

Comments

  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,475 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Who is the A-hole who voted for Pete Rose?
  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭
    92.2 - Larkin
    63.6 - T. Raines~!~!
    63.6 - Jack (The Jack) Morris
    58.4 - Bagwell
    45.5 - Trammell
    41.6 - Lee Smith
    39.0 - E. Martinez
    23.4 - L. Walker
    20.8 - McGriff
    18.2 - McGwire
    13.0 - D. Murphy
    10.4 - Mattingly
    9.1 - R. Palmiero
    2.6 - J. Gonzalez
    2.6 - Bernie Williams !
    1.3 - V. Castilla
    1.3 - P. Rose (write-in)
  • estangestang Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭
    Edgar Martinez is getting too much support, IMHO...
    Enjoy your collection!
    Erik
  • PowderedH2OPowderedH2O Posts: 2,443 ✭✭
    Who is the A-hole who voted for Pete Rose?

    Pete Rose is the all-time hit king, so it makes sense that someone would throw him a bone. But, what I wanna know, is who voted for Vinny Castilla?

    Vinny Castilla?
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  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tim Raines should be a hall of famer. Maybe not in the idealistic version of the HOF, in an expensive suite where Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Christy Mathewson etc. reside. But also not in the janitor's closet where you will find Rabbit Maranville.
    Raines is more deserving than Larkin IMO.
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  • orioles93orioles93 Posts: 3,463 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Who is the A-hole who voted for Pete Rose? >>



    I understand why he doesnt get more support but at the same time im surprised he doesnt get more votes. I mean when youre the all time leader in hits, i feel like there could almost be an exception made considering how good of a ball player he was. Hes one of the greatest players of all time. He just made a bone headed mistake off the field by gambling on games. Its a real shame.
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  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,475 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Who is the A-hole who voted for Pete Rose? >>



    I understand why he doesnt get more support but at the same time im surprised he doesnt get more votes. I mean when youre the all time leader in hits, i feel like there could almost be an exception made considering how good of a ball player he was. Hes one of the greatest players of all time. He just made a bone headed mistake off the field by gambling on games. Its a real shame. >>



    Even if he got 75% off write-in ballots, he could not get in since he is banned from baseball. I suspect it was a protest vote from a Cincinatti writer. Yeah, he made a "bone headed mistake", but he compounded the cardinal sin (betting on your own team) by lying about it for 15 years, and then runing Eck's HOF induction by promoting his stupid book, and constantly whoring his signature at card shows and HOF induction cerimonies.

    At the time he got caught, if he admitted he was wrong and was truly aplogetic, he might have had a chance at reinstatement. He is selfish and has no remorse whatsoever for his wrongdoing, and should be banned from baseball forever.
  • EstilEstil Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭✭
    While Barry Larkin is very deserving of being put over the top this year (I'm surprised he didn't get in on the first ballot though, he was THE shortstop of the 90s), I am very surprised that Jeff Bagwell and ESPECIALLY Fred McGriff (500 HR's is traditionally an automatic bid and he's only seven short--and he didn't take 'roids) are apparently not even close to making it this year.
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    Quarters: 61D, 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
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  • EstilEstil Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Edgar Martinez is getting too much support, IMHO... >>



    How do you figure? He's nowhere close to 75%. image

    Seriously, Edgar is more than deserving of being the first DH in the HOF.
    WISHLIST
    Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P+S, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
    Quarters: 61D, 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
    74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
    1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
    1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭
    Now at 86 ballots (581 were cast last year):

    91.9 - Larkin
    64.0 - Jack (The Jack) Morris
    60.5 - T. Raines
    57.0 - Bagwell
    45.3 - Trammell
    43.0 - Lee Smith
    37.2 - E. Martinez
    20.9 - L. Walker
    20.9 - F. McGriff
    17.4 - McGwire
    14.0 - D. Murphy
    10.5 - Mattingly
    9.3 - R. Palmiero
    2.3 - J. Gonzalez
    2.3 - Bernie Williams !
    1.2 - V. Castilla
    1.2 - P. Rose (write-in)


  • MeteoriteGuyMeteoriteGuy Posts: 7,140 ✭✭


    << <i>Who is the A-hole who voted for Pete Rose?

    Pete Rose is the all-time hit king, so it makes sense that someone would throw him a bone. But, what I wanna know, is who voted for Vinny Castilla?

    Vinny Castilla? >>




    lol
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  • << <i>Tim Raines should be a hall of famer. Maybe not in the idealistic version of the HOF, in an expensive suite where Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Christy Mathewson etc. reside. But also not in the janitor's closet where you will find Rabbit Maranville.
    Raines is more deserving than Larkin IMO. >>

    I agree!!! If it wasn't for R Henderson, Raines would have been the best lead off hitter in the entire decade of the 80's and into the early 90's. If you havn't looked up his numbers - it'd be worth your while - he is very deserving of HOF consideration. I think because he played in Montreal - he is pushed down the ballot by the BBWAA voters. I mean how many of those fools are from Montreal?


    Oh, and BTW - I love the Pink Floyd slogan on your sig line...........
  • wow!

    mattingly was so much better than DH martinez its not even funny...

  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭


    << <i>wow!

    mattingly was so much better than DH martinez its not even funny... >>




    No.
  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>wow!

    mattingly was so much better than DH martinez its not even funny... >>


    That's hilarious. Martinez's 147 OPS+ (compared to Mattingly's 127) says otherwise. Mattingly's defense is obviously a big plus but defense at 1B, relatively speaking, isn't all THAT important. I'll take Martinez's long run of excellence over Mattingly's 5 or 6 years of excellence and 6 years of average.

    Tabe
  • CNoteCNote Posts: 2,070


    << <i>wow!

    mattingly was so much better than DH martinez its not even funny... >>




    LMFAO

    Mattingly is one of the most overrated hitters ever
  • Mattingly was a stud for 4 years, 4 good years 4 subpar years.

    Edgar had several monster seasons, but didnt play the field and missed a lot of games over his career due to injury.

    Neither really scream Hall of Fame, but they would be better than some of the folks in it already.
  • bkingbking Posts: 3,095 ✭✭


    << <i>Mattingly was a stud for 4 years, 4 good years 4 subpar years.

    Edgar had several monster seasons, but didnt play the field and missed a lot of games over his career due to injury.

    Neither really scream Hall of Fame, but they would be better than some of the folks in it already. >>



    Not picking on you, as I don't think you're suggesting it, but I makes my head hurt when people suggest that someone should be inducted because "they're better than so-and-so, who's already in"
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  • PowderedH2OPowderedH2O Posts: 2,443 ✭✭
    Let's just get everyone in that is better than the worst so that we can eliminate that argument. All pitchers better than Candy Cummings, all hitters better than Rabbit Maranville, and all fielders better than Ernie Lombardi should be inducted right away so that we can have a Hall of Fame that we can really take pride in.
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  • bkingbking Posts: 3,095 ✭✭


    << <i>Let's just get everyone in that is better than the worst so that we can eliminate that argument. All pitchers better than Candy Cummings, all hitters better than Rabbit Maranville, and all fielders better than Ernie Lombardi should be inducted right away so that we can have a Hall of Fame that we can really take pride in. >>



    Good Lord. That may be many things, but "a HOF we can really take pride in" isn't one them IMO. Fixing the wrongs of some unworthy admissions but admitting MORE unworthy candidates would turn the HOF into YMCA soccer - everyone gets a trophy.
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  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    UPDATE~~~ 90 Full Ballots.

    92.2 - Larkin
    63.3 - Jack (The Jack) Morris
    60.0 - T. Raines
    55.5 - Bagwell
    45.6 - Trammell
    44.4 - Lee Smith
    36.7 - E. Martinez
    21.1 - L. Walker
    21.1 - F. McGriff
    16.7 - McGwire
    13.3 - D. Murphy
    10.0 - Mattingly
    8.9 - R. Palmiero
    2.2 - J. Gonzalez
    2.2 - Bernie Williams !
    1.1 - V. Castilla
    1.1 - P. Rose (write-in)
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  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭
    Lee Smith went up 5 percentage points from 59 to 90 ballots. That's quite a jump.
  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Let's just get everyone in that is better than the worst so that we can eliminate that argument. All pitchers better than Candy Cummings, all hitters better than Rabbit Maranville, and all fielders better than Ernie Lombardi should be inducted right away so that we can have a Hall of Fame that we can really take pride in. >>


    Finally a proposal I can get behind! Make it happen!

    image

    Tabe
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    Did Baseball Think Factory do a ballot tracker last year? Did the first 25% of the ballots identified give a good estimate of what the next 75% looked like?
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  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Did Baseball Think Factory do a ballot tracker last year? Did the first 25% of the ballots identified give a good estimate of what the next 75% looked like? >>




    I found this one.



    — The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand
    Wednesday, December 29, 2010

    Hall of Fame Ballot Gathering Machine

    HOF % Leaderboard through 138 Full BBWAA Ballots…

    93.4 - Alomar
    79.7 - Blyleven
    66.6 - Larkin
    49.2 - J. Morris
    47.1 - Raines
    40.6 - Bagwell
    39.1 - L. Smith
    31.9 - Edgar Martinez
    26.8 - Trammell
    19.6 - McGwire
    16.6 - McGriff
    13.8 - L.Walker
    12.3 - Palmeiro
    . 8.7 - D. Murphy
    . 5.8 - Mattingly
    . 5.1 - D. Parker
    . 4.3 - Baines
    . 2.9 - K. Brown
    . 2.2 - Juan Gone
    . 2.2 - John Franco
    . 0.7 - Tino
    . 0.7 - Olerud (!)
    . 0.7 - Surhoff
    . 0.7 - Pete Rose (Write-in)
  • EstilEstil Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Let's just get everyone in that is better than the worst so that we can eliminate that argument. All pitchers better than Candy Cummings, all hitters better than Rabbit Maranville, and all fielders better than Ernie Lombardi should be inducted right away so that we can have a Hall of Fame that we can really take pride in. >>



    Good Lord. That may be many things, but "a HOF we can really take pride in" isn't one them IMO. Fixing the wrongs of some unworthy admissions but admitting MORE unworthy candidates would turn the HOF into YMCA soccer - everyone gets a trophy. >>



    And what exactly is wrong with Candy, Rabbit, and Ernie? I don't get why everyone seems to pile on Rabbit especially.
    WISHLIST
    Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P+S, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
    Quarters: 61D, 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
    74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
    1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
    1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    2011
    25% of the vote vs final

    While none of it mattered in the end, it's interesting to note that a few guys got percentage changes greater than 6% between the first 25% of the vote and the last 75%.

    93.4 / 90.0 - Alomar
    79.7 / 79.7 - Blyleven
    66.6 / 62.1 - Larkin
    49.2 /53.5 - J. Morris
    47.1 /37.5 - Raines -9.6
    40.6 / 41.7 - Bagwell
    39.1 / 45.3 - L. Smith +6.2
    31.9 / 32.9 - Edgar Martinez
    26.8 / 24.3 - Trammell
    19.6 / 19.8 - McGwire
    16.6 / 17.9 - McGriff
    13.8 / 20.3 - L.Walker +6.5
    12.3 / 11.0 - Palmeiro
    . 8.7 / 12.6 - D. Murphy
    5.8 / 13.6 - Mattingly +7.8
    5.1 / 15.3 - D. Parker +10.2
    . 4.3 / 4.8 - Baines
    . 2.9 / 2.1 - K. Brown
    . 2.2 / 5.2 - Juan Gone
    . 2.2 / 4.6 - John Franco
    . 0.7 / 1.0 - Tino
    . 0.7 / 0.7 - Olerud
    . 0.7 / 0.7 - Surhoff
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  • dontippetdontippet Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Tim Raines should be a hall of famer. Maybe not in the idealistic version of the HOF, in an expensive suite where Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Christy Mathewson etc. reside. But also not in the janitor's closet where you will find Rabbit Maranville.
    Raines is more deserving than Larkin IMO. >>

    I agree!!! If it wasn't for R Henderson, Raines would have been the best lead off hitter in the entire decade of the 80's and into the early 90's. If you havn't looked up his numbers - it'd be worth your while - he is very deserving of HOF consideration. I think because he played in Montreal - he is pushed down the ballot by the BBWAA voters. I mean how many of those fools are from Montreal?


    Oh, and BTW - I love the Pink Floyd slogan on your sig line........... >>



    I completely agree that part of Raines problem is that he was overshadowed by Henderson. Hendernson was the man in the 80's and ealy 90's. Even on opening day, the big buzz was if Henderson would hit another homerun to increase his record for most years opening the season with a homerun.
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  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭

    And what exactly is wrong with Candy, Rabbit, and Ernie? I don't get why everyone seems to pile on Rabbit especially. >>




    1. Candy was not a HOF caliber pitcher. His inclusion was based on the myth that he invented the curveball.
    2. Rabbit was a terrible hitter, but a terrific fielder.
    3. My grandmother died when she was 98. I believe she had more range in her old age than Lombardi in his prime.

    I believe you missed the intended humor in the post-Rabbit is not in for his hitting, Lombardi is not in for his fielding, and Candy is not in for his pitching.

    I highly recommend Bill James' book "The Politics of Glory" to anyone intersted in the evolution of the HOF. It had a different name in paperback-I think it's "Whatever Happened to the HOF."
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
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  • BrickBrick Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Let's just get everyone in that is better than the worst so that we can eliminate that argument. All pitchers better than Candy Cummings, all hitters better than Rabbit Maranville, and all fielders better than Ernie Lombardi should be inducted right away so that we can have a Hall of Fame that we can really take pride in. >>


    I certainly do appreciate good sarcasm.
    also Pete rose should be admitted to the hall of fame posthumously. If joe jackson can prove he is dead he should get in too.
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  • EstilEstil Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>And what exactly is wrong with Candy, Rabbit, and Ernie? I don't get why everyone seems to pile on Rabbit especially. >>




    1. Candy was not a HOF caliber pitcher. His inclusion was based on the myth that he invented the curveball.
    2. Rabbit was a terrible hitter, but a terrific fielder.
    3. My grandmother died when she was 98. I believe she had more range in her old age than Lombardi in his prime.

    I believe you missed the intended humor in the post-Rabbit is not in for his hitting, Lombardi is not in for his fielding, and Candy is not in for his pitching.

    I highly recommend Bill James' book "The Politics of Glory" to anyone intersted in the evolution of the HOF. It had a different name in paperback-I think it's "Whatever Happened to the HOF." >>



    I have a copy of that book but I don't remember if Bill James really talked in detail about those three. He sure seemed to love to pick on Phil Rizzuto though. image As for Ernie, every one knew he was slow as molasses and his baserunning could be clocked with a sundial, but wasn't his HOF plaque based on his hitting (remember in those days it was VERY unusual for a catcher to be a great hitter)? And doesn't Candy's stats back him up as a HOF too? Then again he pitched in the 1800s when pitching was a very different animal; so could he even be judged fairly one way or the other?
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    Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P+S, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
    Quarters: 61D, 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
    74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
    1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
    1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
    If I had a ballot this year, I'm not so sure I wouldn't leave it blank.

    Ron Burgundy

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  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And what exactly is wrong with Candy, Rabbit, and Ernie? I don't get why everyone seems to pile on Rabbit especially.

    I pile on Rabbit because he hit .258 in the golden age of the hitter. The fielders' then were basically all slow white guys. Can you imagine how bad the average shortstop back then was compared to the slick ones of today who sometimes seem to make spectacular plays seem routine. And their gloves then didn't even have a pocket, they were as flat as a pancake. Yet in that age when Ty Cobb was compiling a lifetime BA. of .367, Rabbitt managed a full 109 points lower.
    I'm sorry, but I don't think being a decent fielder for his era qualifies him for the HOF when he was that anemic at the plate.
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  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭
    I'm sorry, but I don't think being a decent fielder for his era qualifies him for the HOF when he was that anemic at the plate. >>




    FWIW-Rabbit received MVP votes in a year he hit .218. I suspect he was much more than a decent fielder. His top four comps (baseball-reference.com) are in the HOF. He finished 2nd in the MVP in a year he hit .246. He has the same career OPS+ as Aparicio-a hair below Maz and Ozzie. He did much better in the MVP voting than did those three.
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    I feel like I'm watching an auction that's nearing it's end....

    Looks like Larkin will be the only one this year.

    148 Full Ballots.

    89.2 - B. Larkin
    58.8 - Jack (The Jack) Morris
    56.8 - Bagwell
    52.0 - T. Raines
    44.6 - Lee Smith
    36.5 - Trammell
    32.4 - E. Martinez
    23.6 - F. McGriff
    18.2 - L. Walker
    17.6 - McGwire
    12.2 - D. Murphy
    11.5 - R. Palmiero
    10.1 - Mattingly
    3.4 - Bernie Williams !
    1.4 - J. Gonzalez
    0.7 - V. Castilla
    0.7 - B. Mueller
    0.7 - T. Salmon
    0.7 - P. Rose (write-in)
    My Giants collection want list

    WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    148 ballots vs 573 ballots (final)

    89.2 - 86.4 - B. Larkin
    58.8 - 66.7 - Jack (The Jack) Morris
    56.8 - 56.0 - Bagwell
    52.0 - 48.7 - T. Raines
    44.6 - 50.6 - Lee Smith
    36.5 - 36.8 - Trammell
    32.4 - 36.5 - E. Martinez
    23.6 - 23.9 - F. McGriff
    18.2 - 22.9 - L. Walker
    17.6 - 19.5 - McGwire
    12.2 - 14.5 - D. Murphy
    11.5 - 12.6 - R. Palmiero
    10.1 - 17.8 - Mattingly
    3.4 - 9.9 - Bernie Williams
    My Giants collection want list

    WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
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