2012 HOF Results-Updated to 86 Ballots

markj111

Baseball Think Factory has the results from 59 Ballots:

93.2 - Larkin
62.7 - J. Morris
59.3 - Bagwell
59.3 - T. Raines
45.8 - Trammell
40.7- E. Martinez
39.0 - Lee Smith
25.4 - L. Walker
22.0 - McGriff
20.3 - McGwire
15.3 - D. Murphy
10.2 - R. Palmiero
8.5 - Mattingly
3.4 - J. Gonzalez
1.7 - V. Castilla
1.7 - Bernie Williams !
1.7 - P. Rose (write-in)

Connecticoin

Who is the A-hole who voted for Pete Rose?

markj111

92.2 - Larkin
63.6 - T. Raines~!~!
63.6 - Jack (The Jack) Morris
58.4 - Bagwell
45.5 - Trammell
41.6 - Lee Smith
39.0 - E. Martinez
23.4 - L. Walker
20.8 - McGriff
18.2 - McGwire
13.0 - D. Murphy
10.4 - Mattingly
9.1 - R. Palmiero
2.6 - J. Gonzalez
2.6 - Bernie Williams !
1.3 - V. Castilla
1.3 - P. Rose (write-in)

estang

Edgar Martinez is getting too much support, IMHO...

PowderedH2O

Who is the A-hole who voted for Pete Rose?

Pete Rose is the all-time hit king, so it makes sense that someone would throw him a bone. But, what I wanna know, is who voted for Vinny Castilla?

Vinny Castilla?

Darin

Tim Raines should be a hall of famer. Maybe not in the idealistic version of the HOF, in an expensive suite where Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Christy Mathewson etc. reside. But also not in the janitor's closet where you will find Rabbit Maranville.
Raines is more deserving than Larkin IMO.

orioles93

<< <i>Who is the A-hole who voted for Pete Rose? >>



I understand why he doesnt get more support but at the same time im surprised he doesnt get more votes. I mean when youre the all time leader in hits, i feel like there could almost be an exception made considering how good of a ball player he was. Hes one of the greatest players of all time. He just made a bone headed mistake off the field by gambling on games. Its a real shame.

Connecticoin

<< <i>

<< <i>Who is the A-hole who voted for Pete Rose? >>



I understand why he doesnt get more support but at the same time im surprised he doesnt get more votes. I mean when youre the all time leader in hits, i feel like there could almost be an exception made considering how good of a ball player he was. Hes one of the greatest players of all time. He just made a bone headed mistake off the field by gambling on games. Its a real shame. >>



Even if he got 75% off write-in ballots, he could not get in since he is banned from baseball. I suspect it was a protest vote from a Cincinatti writer. Yeah, he made a "bone headed mistake", but he compounded the cardinal sin (betting on your own team) by lying about it for 15 years, and then runing Eck's HOF induction by promoting his stupid book, and constantly whoring his signature at card shows and HOF induction cerimonies.

At the time he got caught, if he admitted he was wrong and was truly aplogetic, he might have had a chance at reinstatement. He is selfish and has no remorse whatsoever for his wrongdoing, and should be banned from baseball forever.

Estil

While Barry Larkin is very deserving of being put over the top this year (I'm surprised he didn't get in on the first ballot though, he was THE shortstop of the 90s), I am very surprised that Jeff Bagwell and ESPECIALLY Fred McGriff (500 HR's is traditionally an automatic bid and he's only seven short--and he didn't take 'roids) are apparently not even close to making it this year.

Estil

<< <i>Edgar Martinez is getting too much support, IMHO... >>



How do you figure? He's nowhere close to 75%.

Seriously, Edgar is more than deserving of being the first DH in the HOF.

markj111

Now at 86 ballots (581 were cast last year):

91.9 - Larkin
64.0 - Jack (The Jack) Morris
60.5 - T. Raines
57.0 - Bagwell
45.3 - Trammell
43.0 - Lee Smith
37.2 - E. Martinez
20.9 - L. Walker
20.9 - F. McGriff
17.4 - McGwire
14.0 - D. Murphy
10.5 - Mattingly
9.3 - R. Palmiero
2.3 - J. Gonzalez
2.3 - Bernie Williams !
1.2 - V. Castilla
1.2 - P. Rose (write-in)

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>Who is the A-hole who voted for Pete Rose?

Pete Rose is the all-time hit king, so it makes sense that someone would throw him a bone. But, what I wanna know, is who voted for Vinny Castilla?

Vinny Castilla? >>




lol

WeekendHacker

<< <i>Tim Raines should be a hall of famer. Maybe not in the idealistic version of the HOF, in an expensive suite where Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Christy Mathewson etc. reside. But also not in the janitor's closet where you will find Rabbit Maranville.
Raines is more deserving than Larkin IMO. >>

I agree!!! If it wasn't for R Henderson, Raines would have been the best lead off hitter in the entire decade of the 80's and into the early 90's. If you havn't looked up his numbers - it'd be worth your while - he is very deserving of HOF consideration. I think because he played in Montreal - he is pushed down the ballot by the BBWAA voters. I mean how many of those fools are from Montreal?


Oh, and BTW - I love the Pink Floyd slogan on your sig line...........

CardboardKeeper

wow!

mattingly was so much better than DH martinez its not even funny...

markj111

<< <i>wow!

mattingly was so much better than DH martinez its not even funny... >>




No.

Tabe

<< <i>wow!

mattingly was so much better than DH martinez its not even funny... >>


That's hilarious. Martinez's 147 OPS+ (compared to Mattingly's 127) says otherwise. Mattingly's defense is obviously a big plus but defense at 1B, relatively speaking, isn't all THAT important. I'll take Martinez's long run of excellence over Mattingly's 5 or 6 years of excellence and 6 years of average.

Tabe

CNote

<< <i>wow!

mattingly was so much better than DH martinez its not even funny... >>




LMFAO

Mattingly is one of the most overrated hitters ever

CEOBIDMC

Mattingly was a stud for 4 years, 4 good years 4 subpar years.

Edgar had several monster seasons, but didnt play the field and missed a lot of games over his career due to injury.

Neither really scream Hall of Fame, but they would be better than some of the folks in it already.

bking

<< <i>Mattingly was a stud for 4 years, 4 good years 4 subpar years.

Edgar had several monster seasons, but didnt play the field and missed a lot of games over his career due to injury.

Neither really scream Hall of Fame, but they would be better than some of the folks in it already. >>



Not picking on you, as I don't think you're suggesting it, but I makes my head hurt when people suggest that someone should be inducted because "they're better than so-and-so, who's already in"

PowderedH2O

Let's just get everyone in that is better than the worst so that we can eliminate that argument. All pitchers better than Candy Cummings, all hitters better than Rabbit Maranville, and all fielders better than Ernie Lombardi should be inducted right away so that we can have a Hall of Fame that we can really take pride in.

bking

<< <i>Let's just get everyone in that is better than the worst so that we can eliminate that argument. All pitchers better than Candy Cummings, all hitters better than Rabbit Maranville, and all fielders better than Ernie Lombardi should be inducted right away so that we can have a Hall of Fame that we can really take pride in. >>



Good Lord. That may be many things, but "a HOF we can really take pride in" isn't one them IMO. Fixing the wrongs of some unworthy admissions but admitting MORE unworthy candidates would turn the HOF into YMCA soccer - everyone gets a trophy.

digicat

UPDATE~~~ 90 Full Ballots.

92.2 - Larkin
63.3 - Jack (The Jack) Morris
60.0 - T. Raines
55.5 - Bagwell
45.6 - Trammell
44.4 - Lee Smith
36.7 - E. Martinez
21.1 - L. Walker
21.1 - F. McGriff
16.7 - McGwire
13.3 - D. Murphy
10.0 - Mattingly
8.9 - R. Palmiero
2.2 - J. Gonzalez
2.2 - Bernie Williams !
1.1 - V. Castilla
1.1 - P. Rose (write-in)

markj111

Lee Smith went up 5 percentage points from 59 to 90 ballots. That's quite a jump.

Tabe

<< <i>Let's just get everyone in that is better than the worst so that we can eliminate that argument. All pitchers better than Candy Cummings, all hitters better than Rabbit Maranville, and all fielders better than Ernie Lombardi should be inducted right away so that we can have a Hall of Fame that we can really take pride in. >>


Finally a proposal I can get behind! Make it happen!



Tabe

digicat

Did Baseball Think Factory do a ballot tracker last year? Did the first 25% of the ballots identified give a good estimate of what the next 75% looked like?

markj111

<< <i>Did Baseball Think Factory do a ballot tracker last year? Did the first 25% of the ballots identified give a good estimate of what the next 75% looked like? >>




I found this one.



— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand
Wednesday, December 29, 2010

Hall of Fame Ballot Gathering Machine

HOF % Leaderboard through 138 Full BBWAA Ballots…

93.4 - Alomar
79.7 - Blyleven
66.6 - Larkin
49.2 - J. Morris
47.1 - Raines
40.6 - Bagwell
39.1 - L. Smith
31.9 - Edgar Martinez
26.8 - Trammell
19.6 - McGwire
16.6 - McGriff
13.8 - L.Walker
12.3 - Palmeiro
. 8.7 - D. Murphy
. 5.8 - Mattingly
. 5.1 - D. Parker
. 4.3 - Baines
. 2.9 - K. Brown
. 2.2 - Juan Gone
. 2.2 - John Franco
. 0.7 - Tino
. 0.7 - Olerud (!)
. 0.7 - Surhoff
. 0.7 - Pete Rose (Write-in)

Estil

<< <i>

<< <i>Let's just get everyone in that is better than the worst so that we can eliminate that argument. All pitchers better than Candy Cummings, all hitters better than Rabbit Maranville, and all fielders better than Ernie Lombardi should be inducted right away so that we can have a Hall of Fame that we can really take pride in. >>



Good Lord. That may be many things, but "a HOF we can really take pride in" isn't one them IMO. Fixing the wrongs of some unworthy admissions but admitting MORE unworthy candidates would turn the HOF into YMCA soccer - everyone gets a trophy. >>



And what exactly is wrong with Candy, Rabbit, and Ernie? I don't get why everyone seems to pile on Rabbit especially.

digicat

2011
25% of the vote vs final

While none of it mattered in the end, it's interesting to note that a few guys got percentage changes greater than 6% between the first 25% of the vote and the last 75%.

93.4 / 90.0 - Alomar
79.7 / 79.7 - Blyleven
66.6 / 62.1 - Larkin
49.2 /53.5 - J. Morris
47.1 /37.5 - Raines -9.6
40.6 / 41.7 - Bagwell
39.1 / 45.3 - L. Smith +6.2
31.9 / 32.9 - Edgar Martinez
26.8 / 24.3 - Trammell
19.6 / 19.8 - McGwire
16.6 / 17.9 - McGriff
13.8 / 20.3 - L.Walker +6.5
12.3 / 11.0 - Palmeiro
. 8.7 / 12.6 - D. Murphy
5.8 / 13.6 - Mattingly +7.8
5.1 / 15.3 - D. Parker +10.2
. 4.3 / 4.8 - Baines
. 2.9 / 2.1 - K. Brown
. 2.2 / 5.2 - Juan Gone
. 2.2 / 4.6 - John Franco
. 0.7 / 1.0 - Tino
. 0.7 / 0.7 - Olerud
. 0.7 / 0.7 - Surhoff

dontippet

<< <i>

<< <i>Tim Raines should be a hall of famer. Maybe not in the idealistic version of the HOF, in an expensive suite where Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Christy Mathewson etc. reside. But also not in the janitor's closet where you will find Rabbit Maranville.
Raines is more deserving than Larkin IMO. >>

I agree!!! If it wasn't for R Henderson, Raines would have been the best lead off hitter in the entire decade of the 80's and into the early 90's. If you havn't looked up his numbers - it'd be worth your while - he is very deserving of HOF consideration. I think because he played in Montreal - he is pushed down the ballot by the BBWAA voters. I mean how many of those fools are from Montreal?


Oh, and BTW - I love the Pink Floyd slogan on your sig line........... >>



I completely agree that part of Raines problem is that he was overshadowed by Henderson. Hendernson was the man in the 80's and ealy 90's. Even on opening day, the big buzz was if Henderson would hit another homerun to increase his record for most years opening the season with a homerun.

markj111

And what exactly is wrong with Candy, Rabbit, and Ernie? I don't get why everyone seems to pile on Rabbit especially. >>




1. Candy was not a HOF caliber pitcher. His inclusion was based on the myth that he invented the curveball.
2. Rabbit was a terrible hitter, but a terrific fielder.
3. My grandmother died when she was 98. I believe she had more range in her old age than Lombardi in his prime.

I believe you missed the intended humor in the post-Rabbit is not in for his hitting, Lombardi is not in for his fielding, and Candy is not in for his pitching.

I highly recommend Bill James' book "The Politics of Glory" to anyone intersted in the evolution of the HOF. It had a different name in paperback-I think it's "Whatever Happened to the HOF."

digicat

Link to tracker

Brick

<< <i>Let's just get everyone in that is better than the worst so that we can eliminate that argument. All pitchers better than Candy Cummings, all hitters better than Rabbit Maranville, and all fielders better than Ernie Lombardi should be inducted right away so that we can have a Hall of Fame that we can really take pride in. >>


I certainly do appreciate good sarcasm.
also Pete rose should be admitted to the hall of fame posthumously. If joe jackson can prove he is dead he should get in too.

Estil

<< <i>And what exactly is wrong with Candy, Rabbit, and Ernie? I don't get why everyone seems to pile on Rabbit especially. >>




1. Candy was not a HOF caliber pitcher. His inclusion was based on the myth that he invented the curveball.
2. Rabbit was a terrible hitter, but a terrific fielder.
3. My grandmother died when she was 98. I believe she had more range in her old age than Lombardi in his prime.

I believe you missed the intended humor in the post-Rabbit is not in for his hitting, Lombardi is not in for his fielding, and Candy is not in for his pitching.

I highly recommend Bill James' book "The Politics of Glory" to anyone intersted in the evolution of the HOF. It had a different name in paperback-I think it's "Whatever Happened to the HOF." >>



I have a copy of that book but I don't remember if Bill James really talked in detail about those three. He sure seemed to love to pick on Phil Rizzuto though. As for Ernie, every one knew he was slow as molasses and his baserunning could be clocked with a sundial, but wasn't his HOF plaque based on his hitting (remember in those days it was VERY unusual for a catcher to be a great hitter)? And doesn't Candy's stats back him up as a HOF too? Then again he pitched in the 1800s when pitching was a very different animal; so could he even be judged fairly one way or the other?

RonBurgundy

If I had a ballot this year, I'm not so sure I wouldn't leave it blank.

Darin

And what exactly is wrong with Candy, Rabbit, and Ernie? I don't get why everyone seems to pile on Rabbit especially.

I pile on Rabbit because he hit .258 in the golden age of the hitter. The fielders' then were basically all slow white guys. Can you imagine how bad the average shortstop back then was compared to the slick ones of today who sometimes seem to make spectacular plays seem routine. And their gloves then didn't even have a pocket, they were as flat as a pancake. Yet in that age when Ty Cobb was compiling a lifetime BA. of .367, Rabbitt managed a full 109 points lower.
I'm sorry, but I don't think being a decent fielder for his era qualifies him for the HOF when he was that anemic at the plate.

markj111

I'm sorry, but I don't think being a decent fielder for his era qualifies him for the HOF when he was that anemic at the plate. >>




FWIW-Rabbit received MVP votes in a year he hit .218. I suspect he was much more than a decent fielder. His top four comps (baseball-reference.com) are in the HOF. He finished 2nd in the MVP in a year he hit .246. He has the same career OPS+ as Aparicio-a hair below Maz and Ozzie. He did much better in the MVP voting than did those three.

digicat

I feel like I'm watching an auction that's nearing it's end....

Looks like Larkin will be the only one this year.

148 Full Ballots.

89.2 - B. Larkin
58.8 - Jack (The Jack) Morris
56.8 - Bagwell
52.0 - T. Raines
44.6 - Lee Smith
36.5 - Trammell
32.4 - E. Martinez
23.6 - F. McGriff
18.2 - L. Walker
17.6 - McGwire
12.2 - D. Murphy
11.5 - R. Palmiero
10.1 - Mattingly
3.4 - Bernie Williams !
1.4 - J. Gonzalez
0.7 - V. Castilla
0.7 - B. Mueller
0.7 - T. Salmon
0.7 - P. Rose (write-in)

digicat

148 ballots vs 573 ballots (final)

89.2 - 86.4 - B. Larkin
58.8 - 66.7 - Jack (The Jack) Morris
56.8 - 56.0 - Bagwell
52.0 - 48.7 - T. Raines
44.6 - 50.6 - Lee Smith
36.5 - 36.8 - Trammell
32.4 - 36.5 - E. Martinez
23.6 - 23.9 - F. McGriff
18.2 - 22.9 - L. Walker
17.6 - 19.5 - McGwire
12.2 - 14.5 - D. Murphy
11.5 - 12.6 - R. Palmiero
10.1 - 17.8 - Mattingly
3.4 - 9.9 - Bernie Williams