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Finding 90% anywhere close to spot proving to be IMPOSSIBLE.
silvereagle
Posts: 290 ✭
Finding 90% anywhere near spot seems to be IMPOSSIBLE
At least this bodes well for silver in the long run IMO. But its frustrating as well. I have been trying to buy some 90% and as we all know, historically you can get 90% a little under spot or at least at spot. Current spot of $29.25 at .715 equals 20.91 X face would be paying full spot.
Just try finding any at 21 X face or below. Maybe if you are gonna buy a $1000 bag you might get it for $22,500 if you're lucky. But who buys that much at once ? and who wants to risk getting a bag o' garbage culls which is what I know they put in $1000 bags. I looked on the BST and nothing. One guy put up a listing for some at 22.5X, some at 24X and some at 25X and 4 minutes later someone replies "PM sent". And that was way over face.
APMEX has $100 bags for 23,500 + shipping. So 23.5 X face + shipping for who knows what condition coins. I looked on EBID site and OH MY GOD everyone and I mean everyone wants anywhere from 28X to 60X. Ebay time I pay shipping and paypal fees I am in 25X or more. My local BM's they both want close to 25X.
I had found one website that had a large amount, where you could pick which coins you wanted and they were ~ 22X face, best deal I could find. Now barely 1 week later, I go back to try and buy more and they are sold out of everything. I swear 1 week ago they had 1000 + 64 kennedys, another 100 rolls of 64 Kennedys, 1000's of franklins, thousands of washington quarters, etc. they were asking over face and they sold out like they were giving them away.
Oh well, thats life I guess. Maybe I will just have to pay the 24 and 25 X face. I sure dont know where I can find any at 20.91 X. Its frustrating, but it does make me think Silver still has a long way too go. So keep stacking.
At least this bodes well for silver in the long run IMO. But its frustrating as well. I have been trying to buy some 90% and as we all know, historically you can get 90% a little under spot or at least at spot. Current spot of $29.25 at .715 equals 20.91 X face would be paying full spot.
Just try finding any at 21 X face or below. Maybe if you are gonna buy a $1000 bag you might get it for $22,500 if you're lucky. But who buys that much at once ? and who wants to risk getting a bag o' garbage culls which is what I know they put in $1000 bags. I looked on the BST and nothing. One guy put up a listing for some at 22.5X, some at 24X and some at 25X and 4 minutes later someone replies "PM sent". And that was way over face.
APMEX has $100 bags for 23,500 + shipping. So 23.5 X face + shipping for who knows what condition coins. I looked on EBID site and OH MY GOD everyone and I mean everyone wants anywhere from 28X to 60X. Ebay time I pay shipping and paypal fees I am in 25X or more. My local BM's they both want close to 25X.
I had found one website that had a large amount, where you could pick which coins you wanted and they were ~ 22X face, best deal I could find. Now barely 1 week later, I go back to try and buy more and they are sold out of everything. I swear 1 week ago they had 1000 + 64 kennedys, another 100 rolls of 64 Kennedys, 1000's of franklins, thousands of washington quarters, etc. they were asking over face and they sold out like they were giving them away.
Oh well, thats life I guess. Maybe I will just have to pay the 24 and 25 X face. I sure dont know where I can find any at 20.91 X. Its frustrating, but it does make me think Silver still has a long way too go. So keep stacking.
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same thing happened -- but much more dramatic -- when silver fell in '08.
provident metals has 90% at $21.62 x face
90% junk
bullion direct is in the same range
nucleo exchange 90%
The lowest ask price is 22.27 and thats only for $30 face, then all the other asking prices range from 22.7X to 25.5X.
On the Nucleo site, there are quite a few bid prices in the 21.5 range. This is people offering to pay more than spot and their offers are not being met with buyers.
Thanks for the info, its one more site that I will keep checking but it seems the Nucleo site is backing up that its costing at least 23X to get any 90% unless you want to buy a site unseen $500 or $1000 bag.
Read up a bit on bullion direct , its a little different than other companies. Some people get annoyed with them , shipping will be faster through provident and cheaper I think as well.
I have to ship it out every other day.
BSTs with: Coll3ctor, gsa1fan, mkman123, ajbauman, tydye, piecesofme, pursuitofliberty
Travelog - 20in20travels.com
There's currently an add for $10 face halves for $215 shipped.
Spot Silver takes a beating for no reason over a 3-7 day period, and the spread widens for physical because people aren't going to sell for a loss.
Spot Silver gets stuck in a somewhat predictable range for an extended period of time, and the spread works off of melt more closely.
Spot Silver has a run and you can sell it for whatever you want because everyone wants some.
It's not uncommon at all for delaers to pull the 90% out of their display cases, or let you know they have it, when Spot took a beating like it did recently either. You throw a stupid number out there at them, and then they suddenly have all you want.
It's just the way it is.
<< <i>Finding 90% anywhere near spot seems to be IMPOSSIBLE
At least this bodes well for silver in the long run IMO. But its frustrating as well. I have been trying to buy some 90% and as we all know, historically you can get 90% a little under spot or at least at spot. Current spot of $29.25 at .715 equals 20.91 X face would be paying full spot.
Just try finding any at 21 X face or below. Maybe if you are gonna buy a $1000 bag you might get it for $22,500 if you're lucky. But who buys that much at once ? and who wants to risk getting a bag o' garbage culls which is what I know they put in $1000 bags. I looked on the BST and nothing. One guy put up a listing for some at 22.5X, some at 24X and some at 25X and 4 minutes later someone replies "PM sent". And that was way over face.
APMEX has $100 bags for 23,500 + shipping. So 23.5 X face + shipping for who knows what condition coins. I looked on EBID site and OH MY GOD everyone and I mean everyone wants anywhere from 28X to 60X. Ebay time I pay shipping and paypal fees I am in 25X or more. My local BM's they both want close to 25X.
I had found one website that had a large amount, where you could pick which coins you wanted and they were ~ 22X face, best deal I could find. Now barely 1 week later, I go back to try and buy more and they are sold out of everything. I swear 1 week ago they had 1000 + 64 kennedys, another 100 rolls of 64 Kennedys, 1000's of franklins, thousands of washington quarters, etc. they were asking over face and they sold out like they were giving them away.
Oh well, thats life I guess. Maybe I will just have to pay the 24 and 25 X face. I sure dont know where I can find any at 20.91 X. Its frustrating, but it does make me think Silver still has a long way too go. So keep stacking. >>
Have you asked your friendly neighborhood B&M coin shop what they have and what they will sell XXX face value for for cash?
<< <i>Those stuck in it at higher prices have a hard time accepting the reality of the current levels. >>
Same as... Those wanting it at lower prices have a hard time accepting the reality of current spreads/mark-ups to spot!
Same as... Those wanting it at lower prices have a hard time accepting the reality of current spreads/mark-ups to spot!
Or maybe they're upset that they waited for their long anticipated drop to buy (claiming to be buyers at any price) and now can't find any product.
Like I said earlier in the thread, it's just the way it is.
If the people who say they buy at any price because they are "stackers" would be true to their word, they'd realize it works both ways.
I aint selling for a loss, and theirs plenty of dealers that do it the same way because they know it'll eventually go back up...and when there's less product available, guess what happens? Spreads spread and if you're not willing to pay that spread as a buyer, then you shouldn't have waited so long to buy lol.
Call it being stuck, sure, I have and am on a small amount, but that donesn't mean I'm giving it away at unrealistic values. DUH!
There is plenty of 90% out there at reasonable spreads when a reasonable amount is purchased.
Went to a local show a few months back and a guy has a table full of beautiful JM 10 oz bars. Says he bought them all around $40 and can't let them go for anything less than that (spot was in the low-mid 30s by this time). Saw him last weekend - he still has them for sale. Didn't want to take a $2-3/oz loss, so now he's sitting on a $10/oz loss. Not necessarily the best business model, but if it works for him...
Much of it has to do with cash flow. If you have other sources of cash coming in, you can afford to ride out the downturn if you wish.
<< <i>There are some little known concepts called "Supply and Demand" and "Volume Discounts".
There is plenty of 90% out there at reasonable spreads when a reasonable amount is purchased.
Went to a local show a few months back and a guy has a table full of beautiful JM 10 oz bars. Says he bought them all around $40 and can't let them go for anything less than that (spot was in the low-mid 30s by this time). Saw him last weekend - he still has them for sale. Didn't want to take a $2-3/oz loss, so now he's sitting on a $10/oz loss. Not necessarily the best business model, but if it works for him... >>
Be careful....several people on here think that "The Law Of Supply And Demand" is some kind of plot against them......
You also make a good point about quantity discounts. I suspect that, if they have it on the machine or on the floor, my former store would gladly sell you a counted-out $250 bag of 90% at melt for cash or check. If they have to hand count out $28.65 face or whatever because that is what you can afford to buy, they will want a little more for the labor.
I basically traded even up into mostly 100 oz. bars but also got some 10 oz. bars.
I've bought for our metal detecting club in excess of $50 face at 20x face the last 3 months due to members selling off their collections. I've tried to solicit silver at 18x with no takers. I'm kind of amazed those that say they can't find buyers at 20x given my experience here. Seems like there is less for sale as well around here due to people hoping for a price increase. I'm trying to take advantage of the <$30 price to buy as much as we can right now for our competition hunt next year, but I also am really hoping it doesn't backfire on me and the silver price fall. As it is, at this price level, we're once again going to have to have a garage sale or some other fundraiser to bridge the gap between what we take in normally at monthly meetings to what we usually put in the ground / prizes given the silver price. Whether or not I'm doing right, the next year will see. Maybe this will be my last year treasurer!
<< <i>You can see a similar scenario play out once in awhile at your local gas station. Owner fills up a few 8,000 gallon underground tanks, oil takes a big drop later that day. Would you, as the gas station owner, immediately lower your price to reflect that drop, knowing you're going to take a huge hit?
Much of it has to do with cash flow. If you have other sources of cash coming in, you can afford to ride out the downturn if you wish. >>
i know now you have never owned a gas station
<< <i>
<< <i>You can see a similar scenario play out once in awhile at your local gas station. Owner fills up a few 8,000 gallon underground tanks, oil takes a big drop later that day. Would you, as the gas station owner, immediately lower your price to reflect that drop, knowing you're going to take a huge hit?
Much of it has to do with cash flow. If you have other sources of cash coming in, you can afford to ride out the downturn if you wish. >>
i know now you have never owned a gas station >>
.. not even close to how a gas stations supply works.
I just picked up some 90% for 20x face and some 40% at 8x today.
In another lot got some silver dollars for 25x face.
I have no problem at all admitting when I am wrong
So please share with us - how does it work?
I knew it would happen.
I think you see the concept now
<< <i>57loaded and Metalsman:
I have no problem at all admitting when I am wrong
So please share with us - how does it work? >>
No problem. This should help. no entirely but close enough.
•Station markup - Of course some of the money you spend at the pump does go to the service station. While some consumers blame high prices on station markup, service stations typically add on a few cents per gallon. There's no set standard for how much gas stations add on to the price. Some may add just a couple of cents, while others may add as much as a dime or more. However, some states have markup laws prohibiting stations from charging less than a certain percentage over invoice from the wholesaler. These laws are designed to protect small, individually-owned gas stations from being driven out of business by large chains that can afford to slash prices at select locations.
...to talk to them.
IF they are local (not the Cash$Gold, etc., type chain) THEN you can make your own deal.
Some will jump at spot, since their refiner is paying them back of spot.
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it...
Understood - that's why they're called 'convenience stores'. You pay quite a bit for that convenience. Kinda like Ticketmaster.
MM,
I was not aware that there are minimum mark-ups in some states but I understand the logic behind it.
Apologize for getting this thread off track. I'll think through my examples a little better next time, or at least post my thoughts a little more clearly.