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Re: Ethics Question

coinman23885coinman23885 Posts: 1,126
in U.S. Coin Forum
I see that I was wrong in viewing a hypothetical situation as unethical; it appears to be an accepted practice. This is precisely why I asked, for a neutral, objective point of view. Thank you all for your help!

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    derrybderryb Posts: 38,623 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not unethical in selling a coin you expect to soon have as long as the contigency is presented to your buyer. Wrong to present a description of a coin as your description if you have not personally seen the coin. Nothing unethical in advertising for sale a coin that one expects to soon take delivery of. New seller needs to be aware of the ramifications of failing to make delivery if his purchase were to fall through or availability of the coin were to change.

    "Money does not care about speeches on morality. Capital asks whether the rules will remain the same tomorrow. With inflation, people assume price is the problem, and propose regulation—but price is simply the message." - Martin Armstrong

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    TomBTomB Posts: 23,232 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I would never do this personally, but do you consider selling and describing a coin (for a sales ad) which you have never formally purchased (i.e. money hasn't changed hands yet) ethical? I DO NOT think that it is ethical, but I heard someone take a contrary position the other day. I want to make sure that I don't have an incorrect sense of ethics here. >>



    Any coin on consignment would fail your ethics standard. This would affect an enormous number of folks in the hobby-industry.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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    coinman23885coinman23885 Posts: 1,126


    << <i>

    << <i>I would never do this personally, but do you consider selling and describing a coin (for a sales ad) which you have never formally purchased (i.e. money hasn't changed hands yet) ethical? I DO NOT think that it is ethical, but I heard someone take a contrary position the other day. I want to make sure that I don't have an incorrect sense of ethics here. >>



    Any coin on consignment would fail your ethics standard. This would affect an enormous number of folks in the hobby-industry. >>



    Maybe I should clarify my hypothetical. I am referring to an owner who has never taken physical possession and who portends to sell the coin with an accurate description without disclosing the fact that the seller has never held the coin in his or her hands.
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    mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭
    If the description is accurate, what difference does it make whether or not the owner has actually held the coin in his hands?
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    dollarsandcentsdollarsandcents Posts: 486 ✭


    << <i>Maybe I should clarify my hypothetical. I am referring to an owner who has never taken physical possession and who portends to sell the coin with an accurate description without disclosing the fact that the seller has never held the coin in his or her hands. >>



    Why would it matter if the owner/seller of the coin has never held the coin in his or her hands before selling it, and why would it be unethical to do so?
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    astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No, it's not unethical.
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
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    coinman23885coinman23885 Posts: 1,126
    I see that I was wrong, thank you all!
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    lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am referring to an owner who has never taken physical possession and who portends to sell the coin with an accurate description without disclosing the fact that the seller has never held the coin in his or her hands.

    Portends?

    I would not do this. But I guess I don't have a problem if it were an ASE or other high-grade modern. The flipper sounds a little desperate.
    Lance.

    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
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    derrybderryb Posts: 38,623 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If the description is accurate, what difference does it make whether or not the owner has actually held the coin in his hands? >>


    How does the owner know the description is accurate without seeing the coin in hand? Pics can be altered and even if they aren't they can be misleading.

    "Money does not care about speeches on morality. Capital asks whether the rules will remain the same tomorrow. With inflation, people assume price is the problem, and propose regulation—but price is simply the message." - Martin Armstrong

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    mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>How does the owner know the description is accurate without seeing the coin in hand? >>

    I don't know- by going with the trusted opinion of someone who has seen the coin? Anyway, that's what the OP stipulated: "I am referring to an owner who has never taken physical possession and who portends to sell the coin with an accurate description..."
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    RYKRYK Posts: 35,801 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are coin dealers who sell inventory owned by others as a substantial part of their business, and you would never know it by looking on their websites or taking with them. They give the impression that they own the coins when they are actually brokers, middlemen, between the buyer and seller. Occasionally, you will find an identical coin in the inventory of two or more dealers, and neither one owns or even possesses the coin, but both sell for the same third party. This is apparently ethical, but I choose not to buy coins from them.

    On the other hand, most retail coin dealers have at least a smattering of consignment coins in their inventory and are usually fairly transparent about the arrangement.
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
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    coinman23885coinman23885 Posts: 1,126


    << <i>

    << <i>If the description is accurate, what difference does it make whether or not the owner has actually held the coin in his hands? >>


    How does the owner know the description is accurate without seeing the coin in hand? Pics can be altered and even if they aren't they can be misleading. >>



    This is the reason I was asking; it seemed odd to portray a description as your own if you cannot speak on the technical merits of a coin.
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    mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>This is the reason I was asking; it seemed odd to portray a description as your own if you cannot speak on the technical merits of a coin. >>

    If you bought a coin that was not as described, you should return it for a refund. You did confirm there was a return option before buying, right?
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    MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,192 ✭✭✭✭
    Let's just say I prefer to buy from someone who has possession and first-hand knowledge of the coin I'm interested in purchasing and leave it at that. image
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
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    coinman23885coinman23885 Posts: 1,126


    << <i>

    << <i>This is the reason I was asking; it seemed odd to portray a description as your own if you cannot speak on the technical merits of a coin. >>

    If you bought a coin that was not as described, you should return it for a refund. You did confirm there was a return option before buying, right? >>



    I promise that I didn't make any purchases of a coin based on a bogus description! It's just a question that I have been pondering over the last few hours after a discussion with another collector.

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