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toning to total destruction..... how long?
Bankerbob56
Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭
Everyone says that toning on a coin is the chemical process that damages the surface of the coin, albeit microscopically. If toning/tarnish is indeed a destructive force/process, does anyone have any hypothesis as to how long it would take for toning to actually damage a coin significantly? Once toning starts how long before a coin becomes signicantly deteriorated? Also, does TPG encapsulation offer any signicant protection from further erosion?
I am a type of person that ponders the fate of the planet when the sun explodes in about 4 to 5 billion years too!
But really, does a toned coin have a significantly shorter life span than a blast white one?
OK already corrected...... Not everyone, but MANY people indicate that toning damages the surface of a coin.....
I am a type of person that ponders the fate of the planet when the sun explodes in about 4 to 5 billion years too!
But really, does a toned coin have a significantly shorter life span than a blast white one?
OK already corrected...... Not everyone, but MANY people indicate that toning damages the surface of a coin.....
What we've got here is failure to communicate.....
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No; everyone does not say that.
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<< <i>"Everyone says that toning on a coin is the chemical process that damages the surface of the coin"
No; everyone does not say that. >>
Ya know Tom, if you, or someone like you, were to write a new book about toning, perhaps we would not have to continually address what I refer to as "the Weimar White effect." Just letting you know, I would buy it!
<< <i>"Everyone says that toning on a coin is the chemical process that damages the surface of the coin"
No; everyone does not say that. >>
Agree. Some collectors are still in denial.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>"Everyone says that toning on a coin is the chemical process that damages the surface of the coin"
No; everyone does not say that. >>
Agree. Some collectors are still in denial.
I'm neutral on this debate, but to answer the original question I think many factors play a role. How the coin is stored, the temperature/humidity/metal content of the coin, etc. AnkurJ is dead on with his statement IMO.
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>If toning is Damage to a coin why do any of them get holdered with a grade?
Simply because it's "Natural" damage... Or non damage to some...lol.
Ray
<< <i>"Everyone says that toning on a coin is the chemical process that damages the surface of the coin"
No; everyone does not say that. >>
I'm another in the "i have my doubts" club , i have raw coins that are jet black which if the theory is correct is the end of the toning process but even under 100x magnifier they look like nicer surfaces than others,no damage thats obvious anyway,some of those are hundreds of years old.
<< <i>If toning is Damage to a coin why do any of them get holdered with a grade?
here is a possibility
we cannot know effectively how extensive the destruction to the surfaces will be since that process may takes hundreds or thousands of years and to conduct an accurate study, a study of that length of period of time but most likely longer would need to be performed, or hypothesized, although that would yield many inaccurate opinions/resutls
since no minting process in the past has been like the past 300 years we simply cannot know just how extensive the "acceptable toning" will ultimately modify the surfaces. then one must ask to what degree will be acceptable before all toning is removed for preservation or if the process would take so long as to render it moot. ie. 100,000 years in which time the continents would have moved substantially and most likely all the current countries would no longer exist and be named something new after many many wars, biological pandemic etc. that being relevant since we mainly collect usa memorabilia since the usa is still up and running, although pre BC coins are still highly sought after and maybe the usa will be viewed that way if it were to fail eventually thousands of years into the future in which case preservation of our monetary history would now would benefit others in the far future.
and we simply cannot wait that long to find out. and also where exactly is the line drawn? microscopically to 500x? 200x? 10000x? whatever power our eyes are?
so since slabbing, grading, pricing, collecting these things serves our capitalistic, intrinsic, emotional, intellectual, spiritual, sentimental etc needs now, then we are going to do things that serve those things now and now it seems as if the surface damage/toning is acceptable
It'll just get real big and burn the planet to a cinder before it burns out. We'll have
plenty of time to get away.
Toning can start out unattractive and since beauty is in the eye of the beholder it's
not unusual that some people will find the specific toning unattractive right from the
beginning. I personally like attractive toning but find most examples to be unattractive.
It can start out as tarnish rather than toning; the two terms are not necessarily mutu-
ally exclusive. It's not necessarily a continuum.
Toning can progress extremely rapidly and then virtually stop for most practical purposes
or it can proceed slowly and go almost straight to tarnish. It can happen almost before
your eyes. Copper can get ugly green in mere days.
There are no rules here. If you have a coin that you like the toning of then stabilize it
in acetone. If you don't want something to tone then an acetone bath should work at
least for a while if it's protected from the atmosphere.
"the Weimar White effect."
<< <i>Copper can get ugly green in mere days. >>
it being ugly is an opinion of the interpretation of the reaction, or perhaps your brain does not interpret the actual color
therefore you see something different than the rest of us,
although i do try to be impartial, maybe my brain misinterprets that hue and i think it looks nice
but in reality most everyone sees it as it is, "ugly"
maybe it should be defined by the oxymoronic/hypocritical standards that most use for "market acceptable" toning/patina
.
No; everyone does not say that.
Tom, he probably just expressed his thoughts in a poor way. what everyone most likely would agree on is that a coin left with a contaminant on it(or in an environment which promotes toning) will eventually be damaged if the chemical reaction which causes the toning continues unchecked long enough.
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<< <i>Still no insight as to whether a TPG slab (PCGS) inhibits/retards the toning process??? >>
A slab significantly reduces the exposure to air. They are not airtight but in the absence of temperature swings, they have very little flow of air in and out. Slabbing should reduce/eliminate the progression of toning. Exception would be toning CAUSED by the slab. Some modern gold is toning in the slab and some old ANACS holders caused toning (must have had some sulfur in them). --Jerry
does anyone else remember the thread by the member who was "handling" slabs while taking a bath??
<< <i>Stop worrying about the sun.
It'll just get real big and burn the planet to a cinder before it burns out. We'll have
plenty of time to get away.
Toning can start out unattractive and since beauty is in the eye of the beholder it's
not unusual that some people will find the specific toning unattractive right from the
beginning. I personally like attractive toning but find most examples to be unattractive.
It can start out as tarnish rather than toning; the two terms are not necessarily mutu-
ally exclusive. It's not necessarily a continuum.
Toning can progress extremely rapidly and then virtually stop for most practical purposes
or it can proceed slowly and go almost straight to tarnish. It can happen almost before
your eyes. Copper can get ugly green in mere days.
There are no rules here. If you have a coin that you like the toning of then stabilize it
in acetone. If you don't want something to tone then an acetone bath should work at
least for a while if it's protected from the atmosphere. >>
Is this a better strategy then simply encapsulating it in a TPG holder? Just a quck dip and air dry will do then? Acetone won't leave any residue that might be detected by an astute grader who might then body bag the coin?
Sorry for all the questions but I have some beautifully toned coins that I'm planning the future for...
While I'm at it... And we're on the topic, what should be done with an unc details and totally black barber.... I've been holding as is... Are there some who would recommend dipping?
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
as it's clean.
It might not be wise to plan too much of a future since the sun just might blow up tomorrow.
All else being equal once a coin's surface is clean and there's no exposure to atmosphere the
toning should be dramatically slowed. I believe some coins have contaminants struck right into
them and these might be more problematical.
<< <i>
<< <i>Still no insight as to whether a TPG slab (PCGS) inhibits/retards the toning process??? >>
A slab significantly reduces the exposure to air. They are not airtight but in the absence of temperature swings, they have very little flow of air in and out. Slabbing should reduce/eliminate the progression of toning. Exception would be toning CAUSED by the slab. Some modern gold is toning in the slab and some old ANACS holders caused toning (must have had some sulfur in them). --Jerry >>
I like the toning that the old ANA slabs put on silver. I buy them when I can find and afford them
Some old Roman coins are in good shape after being in the ground for ages.
The modern zinc cents are probably the worst, in the future they won't be digging them up because they'll be dissolved and the copper cents and old Roman coins will still be ok.