PSA Holder Haters...
Dpeck100
Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
This is getting pretty old. It seems every thread lately is hating on the PSA grading.
There is no doubt there have been some examples of badly graded cards but lets face it collectors on many levels pay large premiums for PSA graded cards.
I have moved almost all of my cards to PSA and refuse to submit with anyone else as the potential resale value is not matched by any grader not to mention for long term collectors there is significant risk with other grading firms.
If you do not like PSA then you will not be happy with any other grading firm.
There is no doubt there have been some examples of badly graded cards but lets face it collectors on many levels pay large premiums for PSA graded cards.
I have moved almost all of my cards to PSA and refuse to submit with anyone else as the potential resale value is not matched by any grader not to mention for long term collectors there is significant risk with other grading firms.
If you do not like PSA then you will not be happy with any other grading firm.
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Comments
The bottom line is if a PSA grade can turn a 1986 Fleer #76 Johnny Moore in PSA 10 from a $2 common to a $5,600 graded card that is awesome!!!
There is no other grading company that can come close. This is worth a lot.
I remember having to give up my 1985 Pete Rose so my older brother Matt could complete the set since my Dad hat hit the Revco on Curry Ford in Orlando and loaded up on 1985 Fleer Cello packs.
Times have changed a lot since then and the quality of the card has changed the value significantly.
Over time we all get better at judging what we think a card should grade.
Each time I submit cards to PSA I get better and hence so do my grades. You learn to pick out 6's, move 7's to the side, get some what excited about 8's and when you have a 9 you know it and a true 10 sticks out like a sore thumb.
Quit complaining people. PSA has changed the hobby for the better and have jacked up the value of all cards.
With that said, I do believe that some submitters get gloss over preferiental treatment due solely to their volume status. 4sharpcorners is my best example. Do I think that 4SC is trying to get 7's & 8's graded as 10's? No, I do not. Do I think they are submitting obvious 5's and getting 7's and 8's? No, I don't think that either. But I do believe that they are very selective in the cards they submit... and due to the shear volume of cards they submit... do I think graders take less time and pay less attention to their items... thus allowing plenty of 9's to get 10's, and lower grade cards to get graded more on eye appeal versus a thorough inspection? Absolutely.
I've got plenty of modern PSA 10's I've bought from 4SC, that if I subbed on my own... I'd be happy (and probably lucky) to even get 9's. Regardless, I still buy from 4SC and have no intention of stopping. If it's for a registry set, I have no problem paying the sometimes $10-25 (or less) for a PSA 10 I need from 4SC. With that said, I'd never buy a vintage card or modern PSA 10 from 4SC that cost more than $100. Buy the card, not the holder... but with these high volume submitters... I'll buy the low cost "holders" if it will help my registry set, but no way would I spend serious money on an individual item with them. I know what 10's I own that aren't really 10's... and I'll upgrade if the chance comes along... but until then, they're "legit" so I'll keep them in my registry set(s).
As a worker that has done a good job for my employers over my career(s), I have been expected to do a good job and improve with experience and training.
My main objection is if a card is undergraded, it should be corrected at no cost to the resubmitter, or an explanation given as to why the card deserves the low grade. If the card deserves the original grade a charge would be acceptable. Whenever I made a mistake, I was expected to correct it for the customer at no charge.
Joe
<< <i>If you do not like PSA then you will not be happy with any other grading firm. >>
haha
if youre serious, then thanks for the laugh...
My point is simply you can gripe about any of them.
They all have their flaws but PSA is the best.
<< <i>fkw originally wrote: haha obviously you dont visit any other "Good" message boards.... or have a clue about SGC and their extremely highend vintage (PreWar) card following
if youre serious, then thanks for the laugh... >>
<< <i>Dpeck100 replied: If SGC is so great why do so many card collectors want to cross their SGC cards and get them into PSA holders? Why does almost every SGC listed card on EBAY compare the grades to their PSA counterpart?
My point is simply you can gripe about any of them.
They all have their flaws but PSA is the best. >>
D-
You're not looking at the specific market area that fkw mentioned. He is correct and you cannot judge a grading service by only what you collect or the era in which you collect when making such gross and wide ranging assumptions and allegations.
If you examine SGC and PSA with regard to Pre-war prices, you may be astounded at the discoveries...
The vast majority of cards sell for the most in a PSA holder and in the end in my book that is what matters. Markets are efficient and if PSA was not the best they would not get the bulk of the market share.
I am by no means blind to flaws and clearly there have been some example recently mentioned that would warrant concern but in the big picture they do a tremendous job of unleashing value and unless you are collecting a highly counter-fitted card you are really submitting to simply get their seal of approval and that is what the market pays for.
I just think a little more positive sentiment would be a good thing here.
1954 Bowman Don Newcombe SGC 9
At auction, it brought less than $500. If this same card was in a PSA 9 holder, it would bring $1,500 easy!! If that don't convince you to use PSA, nothing will!
Like others have said PSA graded cards give you the best returns.I have used SGC on several occasions in the past and have sold 2 sets 100% SGC however the returns on them were not what I expected.If I had used PSA my returns would have been significantly better.They do however have fine grading standards but lack the reputation with most sellers and buyers.
As for 4SC, I am no fan of theirs due to my own negative experience. However, the only reason they SEEM to get favorable grades is due to the volume they submit. Most of us send in 20-50 cards a month or whatever, and get very few favorable grades. 4SC sends in thousands a month and they get several favorable grades. It is not because the graders are rushing through larger orders, or that they want to give kickbacks to good customers. Since 4SC submits say, 100X more than the average submitter, they are 100X more likely to get a favorable grade, and PSA is 100X more likely to make an occasional error in their favor. Then when the card is listed on Ebay, someone starts a thread about it and it seems that it happens all the time for them. No one starts threads about the other 5000 cards 4SC has up that are probably graded accurately.
Look at the PSA and SGC 1954 Bowman set registries and compare the number of collectors putting together sets. The market for the card in any grade SGC holder is extremely limited due to so few collectors looking for it in an SGC holder. The same things goes if you compare the number of other sets and collectors for all the other major sets in Topps, Bowman, Playball, Goudey, and other popular N, R, and T issues. The only market for cards like Newcombe are wishful flippers looking to make money on PSA crossovers.
<< <i>As for 4SC, I am no fan of theirs due to my own negative experience. However, the only reason they SEEM to get favorable grades is due to the volume they submit. Most of us send in 20-50 cards a month or whatever, and get very few favorable grades. 4SC sends in thousands a month and they get several favorable grades. It is not because the graders are rushing through larger orders, or that they want to give kickbacks to good customers. Since 4SC submits say, 100X more than the average submitter, they are 100X more likely to get a favorable grade, and PSA is 100X more likely to make an occasional error in their favor. Then when the card is listed on Ebay, someone starts a thread about it and it seems that it happens all the time for them. No one starts threads about the other 5000 cards 4SC has up that are probably graded accurately. >>
Let this be the final, definitive word on the 4SC topic. Please?????
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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<< <i>Not too lucky on crossing SGC Newcombes are we? >>
I never tried to cross it. Maybe I should have.
I
To each his own - competition is a good thing!
<< <i>When you're number one you're just going to be attacked, criticized, immitated and complimented more than the rest.
There's a reason why every non-PSA auction on eBay always mentions PSA in their auction title.
From an aesthetic point of view, I like the design and color choice of the PSA holder more than any of those from competitors. >>
As much as it pains me... I agree whole heartedly with this post.
<< <i>I
Oops, I meant to make that post on the Mullins' Gretzky thread.
All my other sets are raw the way they should be. I don't concern myself that much with values, prices and "Markets" Cards have never been an investment to me.
I often wish that all the hobby parasites such as "What's it worth collectors'" "Card Speculators" "Third Party graders" and basically anybody who's main motive and concern is money.
While Ive spent thousands upon thousand of dollars over the years on cards, it would not bother me one bit if the whole card market went belly up and all cards became worthless as far as any money value.
How great would that be!
#1 It would rid the hobby of all the third party grading parasites
#2 It would also rid the hobby of "Investment" "Whats it Worth" and label collectors, who's only concern is which parasite grading company can maximize profits.
#3 Once the cards have no monatary value, the hobby parasites and "whats it worth" people will be long gone.
#4 The only ones left will be those who are simply in it for the joy of the CARDS themselves and the sentimental value they hold. Just the way it use to be.
#5 I'll still be here breaking all our beloved cards and heroes free of these plastic tombs and labels that seem to be more the focus than the cards themselves.
Its a pipe dream but one can only hope.