Monster Toned Franklin -- what do you think?

WingedLiberty1957

I enjoyed reading the recent thread on the Mint Set Toned Franklin.

I was curious what you all thought about the toning on this PCGS graded MS65FBL Franklin -- especially theories on how the toning might have developed -- but I didn't want to hijack the other thread so I started a new one.

This Franklin was one year too late for Mint Set Toning - so that's out. I wonder if it might be End of Roll Toning due to the sharp edges (boundaries) of some of the colors and the fact that the toning was on one side only -- however most EOR toners I've seen have even sharper and more distinct boundaries than this one and usually aren't as pretty -- and I am having a hard time figuring out exactly how the paper was folded down on the coin.

I don't think it was cooked due to PCGS blessing it -- however I suppose that is no guarantee. If it was cooked, I wonder why the cookers would use a method that would leave distinct lines on the coin? (Note the lighter colored stripe going through the T in LIBERTY)

One thing that I found interesting was how similar the Franklin obverse coloration (golds, ambers, reds, greens) was to this MS66 1944-D Walking Liberty Half (image at bottom) that I bought from a completely different seller, several months earlier, in a different part of the country -- but I realize that doesnt mean much. I suppose perhaps I should ask, what caused the coloration on the Walker? I can't imagine toning looking any more perfect (is that a bad sign? or should I not look a gift horse in the mouth?)

So what do you think on the Franklin: NT? .... Probably NT but have doubts ? .... Probably AT but marginally market acceptible ? .... AT and PCGS blew it?

Also if anyone has any theories on how this interesting obverse-only toning developed, please share. (Any theories on the Walker toning are welcome as well).

TomB

Is this a new True View option given by PCGS (black background)? If so, that is pretty cool. Regarding the coins, I think both look fine, though of course that is easy to say when they are in PCGS holders already. The Franklin might really be EOR toning where the ends of the roll were not crimped tightly. I like both coins.

jhdfla

I'd go with NT. That walker is gorgeous! How close are the colors in hand to the image?

Justacommeman

<< <i>I like both coins as well. >>



+1

MJ

deltadimeman

i would say the 59 franklin has to be a end roll coin , no toning on the reverse and i can see some straight line toning on the obverse that looks like a fold on a paper roll ? just my opinion ?

i like it and would pay you a profit if you want to sell !

WingedLiberty1957

Hey Thanks for all the feedback everybody ... so the consensus is EOR toning ...

So interesting as I am so much more used to EOR toners having more and sharper lines like this ...



Maybe the paper was mushed down in an odd way (like was posted).

Phil at PCGS TrueView nailed the photos. Both are fairly easy to capture though as the toning is visible from ALL angles
(neither of those coins is like ones where you have to tilt them to see the color)
I took some decent photos with my iPhone (hand held) on both coins; however out-of-the-slab TrueViews really make these pop.

I paid a premium over the PCGS price guide prices for both ... 2.2x for the Franklin at $353 and 2.7x for the Walker at $750.
Pricey on both (some might say I'm nuts), but what can I say, I am addicted to color. (Just another toned coin junkie!)

Delta, Not for sale at this time, I will def let you know should I ever put them on the market.

I hope SkyMan posts as I think he's the biggest Toned Franklin expert on the Planet.

Copperguy

I really like the Franklin

golden

AuroraBorealis

WL57 all 3 coins look very nice...Congrats! The Frank and Morgan both look EOR toning to me with the Walker looking more like album toned... Again very nice coins...

AB

kryptonitecomics

I agree with the others....the Franklin looks like an end roller to me...I have little doubts it's NT. I don't know if it qualifies as a monster but obviously your going to have a hard time finding better toning for the date so maybe we can cut you some slack on the designation

WingedLiberty1957

Good call Kryptonite. 1959 is an EXTREMEMLY tough year for nicely toned Franklins.

Actually I wouldnt mind seeing some true monster toned Franklins in this thread ... so if you have one, post it.

If that Walker is Album toned, I want that album back so I can load more coins into it!

rainbowroosie

The Franklin is a tough call...I think you are being influenced by it being in a holder... I would not buy it raw. I would not crack it and resubmit.:

robec

I think your 1959 should be considered a monster given the date. I would be very surprise to see another 1959 posted here with nicer toning.

deltadimeman

CCC2010

I am in Frankie heaven...

WingedLiberty1957

Delta, you have some FANTASTIC Franklins!!!
I think my favorites are your '58. '57, and '56 at the top of your post.
However I love them all!

kryptonitecomics

I know Skyman has an exceptional 1959 as I sold it to him but I will let him post it

etexmike

The Frankie is a nice looking toner but I have just never been a big fan of the disign.

The Walker is another story. Beautiful coin and great colors on this one. Very nice pickup.


Mike

MICHAELDIXON

I have an identical Walker which has been to both PCGS and NGC. Both services slabbed it as AT.

WingedLiberty1957

MichaelDixon, can you post an image of that coin?

I would love to see it for comparitive purposes!

Toning is always so controversial.

georgiacop50

Hard to say on the 59. Obviously market acceptable. Could be real or it could be Memorex...

There are some wild, psychedelic 59s owned by forumites that are really impressive. One is featured in Tomaskas' book, and Pawpaul recently got the other one into a 66+ holder, making it the second highest graded PCGS 1959-P.

The 59-D is considerably harder to find that the P with attractive toning.

I like the OPs' 59 but the walker looks done to me.

AuroraBorealis

Holy "deltadimeman" i`m not a big Frankie guy but those are superb!

AB

Lehigh96

<< <i>I agree with the others....the Franklin looks like an end roller to me...I have little doubts it's NT. I don't know if it qualifies as a monster but obviously your going to have a hard time finding better toning for the date so maybe we can cut you some slack on the designation >>



+1

deltadimeman

skyman, please post an image of your monster toned 1959 franklin , i would really like to see it !

this 57-d is one of my new additions to my franklin set

WingedLiberty1957

Nice Frankie, Delta!

Here are some of my other slabbed Franklins. I wouldn't call any of them monsters, but I think they are all pretty! The 1948, 1954, and 1958-D I bought from KryptoniteComics, one of the best toned coin dealers in the country. The 1963 I bought from MyCatKD (CoinsAreFun) and is one of the prettiest toned Proof Franklins I've ever seen.

bestclser1

<< <i>Holy "deltadimeman" i`m not a big Frankie guy but those are superb!

AB >>

+1

coinsarefun

This one does look familiar

I always thought it was one of the prettiest proof Franklins I owned

WingedLiberty1957

any more toners in the queue MyCat? I like the way you TrueView a lot of your coins in advance.

coinsarefun

<< <i>any more toners in the queue MyCat? I like the way you TrueView a lot of your coins in advance. >>





Actually I am going to be submitting some toned Kennedy's, Franklins and Franklin proofs
Stay tuned

SkyMan

Some very attractive Frankies here!

With regards to me being the big Frankie guru, thank you for your kind comments, but I'm certainly NOT the top of the line person. There are certainly a variety of others that have more knowledge than me.

I find 1959 to be the year with the oddest assortment of toners that you would swear are AT, that are in fact NT. As to your 1959 I'm not sure which it is. At a minimum it is certainly MA. One thing that came to mind regarding the "soft" lines compared to an EOR was perhaps the coin was in an envelope with another (1... 2... 3... ?) Franklin's behind it on the reverse, and then the envelope would be held shut by a rubber band. The problem for that is that envelope toners from that era tend to have a blueish and pinkish tint. Perhaps the original owner maybe just wrapped some paper around a few Franklins and held the paper in place by a rubber band???

My best GUESS is it is NT, but I'm certainly not sure.

Here's an example of what I mean about envelope toning, note the predominant coloring:




Here's an example of what I mean about coloring that looks AT, yet, knowing the year, is probably NT. By which I mean that a small percentage of 1959's will show linear features (no one is really sure why) that develop over long periods of toning. (FWIW these linear features are much more common, but still relatively rare, in 1960's). If you look at the Frankie below, you'll see circus colors that sure look AT... however if you look closely you'll see that the aforementioned linear features are there, so my best guess is that the coin is indeed NT. How it toned up I have no idea. Any person that tells you that they can invariably discern an AT from a NT Franklin is a fool IMO.

WingedLiberty1957

Great Information Skyman! The coin-stack, paper-wrapped, and rubber-banded theory is the first one I've heard that actually seems plausible based on visual evidence on the 1959 in the OP -- as it just doesnt look like typical EOR toning. I think you may have solved the mystery for me. Boy there should be a website that shows how different types of toning could develop along with example coin photos.

And I love those 1959's of yours!

kryptonitecomics

That bottom one is the coin I was referring too....I bought it raw on Ebay and submitted it.

robec

<< <i>That bottom one is the coin I was referring too....I bought it raw on Ebay and submitted it. >>



Looks quite a bit like his 1960.

deltadimeman

skyman, that rainbow 59 is sooooo nice !

WingedLiberty1957

Nice Photo on that 1960, Bob ... I like that one a lot!

Coppercolor

<< <i>skyman, please post an image of your monster toned 1959 franklin , i would really like to see it !

this 57-d is one of my new additions to my franklin set

>>



Dimeman, great 57D!! And because I made that coin and know how awesome it looks in hand, I also know that your photography is under-representing it substantially.

CC

deltadimeman

jeff , why didn't you sell me this 1957-d frankie first, sure could have saved me some money i bet ? yes, the image of my coins do suck !

wingedliberty1957 , that 1963 proof is a knockout coin ! show me some more ?

kaz

Here is an example of envelope toning; I bought this from Bushmaster when he was on the forum, he had purchased a group of Franklins that had been stored for decades on envelopes.

WingedLiberty1957

I like it Kaz!

georgiacop50

Very sweet coin Kaz!

Coiny

Here's a few you may enjoy seeing;


1949S NGC MS66STAR FBL

1952 NGC MS66STAR FBL

1953S NGC MS67

CCC2010

Christmas Wreath Frankie...

lkeigwin

Wonderful Franklins! I enjoyed them all.

WL, you did very well!
Lance.

WingedLiberty1957

There is some eye candy on this page!!! nice coins!

OldEastside

<< <i>Christmas Wreath Frankie...

>>



Nothing like a Perry Como Christmas

Steve

WingedLiberty1957

I have one more (PCGS MS64FBL) that I am going to send off to be TrueView photographed out of the slab. This has some really great and unique color, and sort of reminds me of metal that has been heated up in a blast furnace. In certain lighting conditions, it puts the obtuse thought in your head: Is this coin cool to the touch or heated up to 5000 degrees like a red-hot poker.

Here are some photos from the seller and from my iPhone: