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Coins & airport security

My wife deserves a gold star for her efforts yesterday. She already started a job in Dallas, so she goes down every other week until we move at the end of the month. She has been taking a box of slabs with her each time to put in a safety deposit box down there so I can move with peace of mind and not worry about the collection. Anyhow, when she was at the airport, she has two of the NGC/PCGS 20 slab boxes in her purse (FYI she was already in a bad mood because they were so heavy). When they asked to look at them more closely, she only asked that they do so in private to avoid prying eyes of other travelers. They disregarded her request and opened both boxes and started taking out all the slabs. They completely emptied one and most of the other on the table in front of other travelers and one of the tsa guys even asked the guy at the other station to come "check this stuff out". My wife was pissed to say the least. Before it was over, no less than 4 tsa guards felt the need to inspect. She complained to the manager but I doubt anything will come of it. The whole ordeal makes me steaming mad due to the lack in professionalism.

I do not have any other collectibles to transfer at this point, but I figured I would ask the forum for opinions/advice anyway for future trips.

Comments

  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 12,873 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have no experience with this but I have heard of dealers asking in advance for a private security screening.
    Perhaps they are not as accomodating after the fact, i.e the box in the scanner looks strange to them.
    Maybe your wife should approach them first.
    Just a thought.
  • WalterWalter Posts: 145 ✭✭
    I took 1000 Australian 50c coins on a domestic service stored in an old ammo crate. They insisted on opening it, spilling many onto the floor. They stuck their hands in making sure something wasn't hidden within them. Only 999 made it.

  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I moved back in 1992 and faced the daunting task of gradually moving my coin collection with me. Since I was still making trips back to where I lived, I moved stuff gradually and brought a lot of it with me in carry on bags. Back then airport security was much more accomodating - I told them as I was going through security of my predicament of having a large number of things that would set their alarms off and requested that they look at it in private with me overseeing what they did. In fact I never had a problem. One time one of the security agents commented that he had just seen a lot of coins the previous week as there had been a coin show. So obviously they were sort of used to screening coins in private and didn't seem to mind.

    Since then I have not had problems in the USA or Ukraine. But a couple of years ago on my way back to Ukraine from the USA I had an issue with security in the Schiphol airport in Amsterdam. This time I was carrying smaller bars instead of the usual coins - if they were coins they would have not even set off alarms, but the bars were another matter and they made me remove them from my bags and held them up for everybody to see and view. Great. Then I was questioned why I was carrying bullion and for what purpose. More great.
    In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
  • stevebensteveben Posts: 4,595 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i have read and heard about more and more scrutiny of people carrying coins through airports recently. the last time i flew with coins was this past summer. i had no trouble...but i was only carrying about 10 or so.
  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Last year I flew to Germany to purchase an estate coin collection which was offered exclusively to me. (I knew the sellers) .
    I carried a 14 page album of Canadian Gold and Silver, together with some very old German colonial, Indian and French gold coins through Stuttgart to Frankfurt to Vancouver.
    had the album in my wheel on .
    I was fully prepared to have airport security examine every coin. coins were either in 2x2's or plastic envelopes.
    Yes, the x-ray guard asked what these round things were in that book. So I told her. she looked at me and asked : what are these worth? and i said ; a lot...
    then she asked If it was ok to have the coins looked at and gave me 3 options:
    1 have them looked at right here or
    2 in private in a special room just for occassions like this. or
    3 check it in ( she said even there it might be selected to be opened when xrayed.
    I chose the private room
    she informed me that there were 4 cameras in that room and that 3 armed guards will be in the room ( 2 of them carried sub mchine guns + a holstered hand gun), 2 federal Border guards and one federal police officer in plain cloth.
    off we went to the room 20 ' away. All the officers automatically identified themselves with their police id's and made sure one of the cameras, as well as a scanner would record their info. then they asked me to have py Passport also scanned.
    they wanted me to open the album which i did. within seconds they could not see enough of these beautiful coins and completely forgot why we were in that room. they were amazed. They all said that they see a lot of things, including coins and old stuff, but these were exceptional to feel and look at.
    all of them wore cotton gloves with rubber gloves under them.
    the discussion was all about coins, not about security.
    then one of them opened a drawer and took out a small but sturdy plastic pouch. he suggested that we place the album inside and they officially seal it so I would not have a problem in Frankfurt where I again had to go through security.
    and so it was done. It totally blew me away. what a very welcome courtesy.
    this whole proceedure was a extreme pleasant experience with perfect professionalsim very evident. there was no power trip, no ifs and buts. No: you do as I say or else.., just very polite humans and professionals.
    In Frankfurt it was a breeze going through security. They removed the coin book from the pouch and handed it back to me. the guard who did this made a comment: they must have been impressed in Stuttgart..., have a nice trip
    One of the officers in Stuttgart asked for my business card, as he is coming to British Columbia in 2012 with his wife for a holiday. They will be my guests for a few days.
    that was my experience with taking coins through airports.
    I know this is an unusual experience, as I believe such a thing would never happen in the US or Canada.
    why not one has to ask????
    simple: neither country employes professionals to do this job
    H
    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great experience, YQQ.

    I recently took a box of coins & medals out of Munich and the experience was similarly professional and polite. (Although I was flying Delta and will say that US airline personnel are of the same poor quality worldwide, regardless of nationality.)

    I completely agree with your conclusion. The TSA rules here in the US are written to be executed by monkeys without any thought or common-sense application. Witness the groping of young children and the elderly.
  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The absolute worst experience I have ever had in security in the USA was a few years ago while escorting some visitors from E. Europe, we were all speaking that certain "foreign" language that we usually do, and well we all had our "foreign" passports that are dark red instead of blue. Wow, talk about being treated like absolute amoebic scum - we were hassled because three in the group spoke no English and they had these TSA fools barking at them to open their bags and they were confused. I stepped forward and told them in our "foreign" language what the TSA apes were telling them to do - and then got pushed back and told "You're interfering with our investigation" I responded "What investigation, what is going on and why are you acting this way" WRONG!!! So I backed away, what could I do? They proceeded to open the bags, rifling through them. Frankly I felt ashamed that the USA security people had become so rude and provocative. You see, I was used to such behaviour, back in the "good old days" of the USSR. Practically everybody was rude back then. But somethings have changed. I never get hassled or even given a second glance in security or customs in the former USSR these days.

    Flying in the ex-USSR is still a bit of an adventure, but becoming much less so by the days. Airlines are customer oriented, gotta make money and please the oligarchs with earnings so customer service is becoming quite like what it used to be like back in the USA 30-40 years ago. The only sometimes scary thing is occasionally there are still flying relics of the USSR era in service - but they are disappearing quickly because nobody likes them. Did I mention you now get a decent palatable hot meal with tea and soft drinks - all free? Most of the air hostesses are very well mannered now, and they remind one of what they used to look like in the USA 40+ years ago - Very easy on the eyes.
    In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
  • worldcoinguyworldcoinguy Posts: 2,999 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks all. It will be another month before I get down there to put my concerns to rest. I wont worry about it in the meantime.......at least I will try not to think about it.....
  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I completely disagree with what the TSA did, but all the slabs made it to their destination, right? So what's to worry about now (after the fact)?

    At least they were protected in plastic and they did not get their grubby fingers on the coins.
  • wybritwybrit Posts: 6,952 ✭✭✭
    Good thread - should be pinned for all time, because this stuff happens often.

    When I made my great escape from Minnesota to Colorado, I sent all of my coins to my dad's house registered using flat rate priority mail boxes. It was expensive but secure, plus I had a good moving stipend allowing me to do it (in the good old days not long ago when companies had relocation packages that actually covered the true cost of a move). I think your chances of having your coins lost or stolen are much greater going through the airport system. Of course, I wouldn't trust a postal system for an international move, let alone pay for the postage to do it. In that case, I would recommend using airtites or similar storage methods, and keep careful count, because you have to assume that security types aren't going to give a rat's hair about what you own (except in those rare cases noted above).

    I purchased a 1937 proof set in the UK years ago, and that set naturally became the target of a search by London Gatwick security. I had to open the box, but luckily the agent decided not to touch the coins. He did ask if I had a 1933 penny in my bag (!!).



    Former owner, Cambridge Gate collection.
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I used to fly to coin shows. The last time I flew was when they had just started the random searches before you boarded a plane. Had been through the private screening etc. Well...I was the 3rd in line to board and I was pulled aside in front of all and searched. :-( The guy was reasonably cool about it but it made up my mind. There are so many situations where your plane type might be changed...IE no room for your carryon and you either check it or don't get on the plane. So this boy keeps his but on the ground now!
  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree that registered mail is usually a fine choice. When I've done big moves I've sent many packages that way!

    However, my last box I am having issues with. I'm using the USPS it just so happens they are located on overseas bases--but I dropped a nice box into the mail on the 10th of August. There are coins, but also photos, paperwork etc that truly does mean more...In any case, the box was logged into the Yokosuka branch zip code 10 August. Nothing until the 20th of November (after a few inquiries of course)--and it shows up at the...Yokohama mail sorting facility. Oh joy. 15 miles in 3 months. I did a rough calculation and should see my box in about 112 years.

    I think that though there was a happy ending this tale does bear telling for a reminder to the rest of us to be aware, and perhaps worldcoinguy by raising awareness will help us all to remember that complaints do sometimes help by making a paper trail and/or showing a pattern of behavior when eventually someone gets mugged or killed for their coins.

    Thanks for posting and it will be a helpful reminder next time I fly (and last time I flew I'm happy to say I got screened in Japan, and only passed through Dallas where my few coins--thankfully my best ones I didn't put in that registered box--did not even garner a raised eyebrow.


    Cathy

  • worldcoinguyworldcoinguy Posts: 2,999 ✭✭✭✭
    I think the aspect of the situation that I understated was the way in which it was handled infront of the public. I think the probability of a slab or raw taler tumbling out into a welcoming tsa pocket is unlikely given the eyes on them and cameras. I had about a half dozen raw talers that I have not yet sent to NGC/PCGS and a few of them were unwrapped for inspection, but I can live with that as long as they made it back in the boxes with the slabs. They have been around 300 years so far, so another set of fingers will not do any harm. I am sure that some things disappear every day in these circumstances but the odds are against it in the glare of the public. What concerns me to a greater degree is the prying eyes that get their interest stoked by something they see and then decide to follow. We probably have all read the sad stories on the US forum about the dealers being shadowed for hours after the shows and being robbed on the way home. While the airport probably reduced the likelyhood of this significantly, there is still the element of letting your guard down for a moment while you are in a busy international airport waiting for your flight. There are 2 boxes of coins in a purse just waiting for a quick slight of the hand, and they are gone on a flight to Timbuktu before you know it. All it takes is 10 seconds to run over to get a napkin at lunch, or setting the purse down to buy a new book in a shop. The other concern is that wondering eyes/hands do some shopping while you are in the plane restroom because they saw what you had in the purse a couplle of hours earlier when going through security. I have traveled enough to know to be situationally aware when I am in public areas, but it only takes a moment to let your guard down. With the move, work, and other things on our minds, the last thing I wanted my wife worrying about was prying eyes following here every move and most importantly her safety. Better safe than sorry whenever traveling with valuables whether coins, jewelry, or other momentos. I feel like this is borderline paranoia but it is temporary at most.

  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,174 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't fly anymore, rarely did in the past and never will in the future.

    I talk to many close friends and family that do however.

    ALL of them say flying is not an enjoyable experience anymore.

    Whether it's security issues, lack of meals, increase boarding hassles, lack of comfort (I could go on and on).

    It's definitely taken a turn for the worse.
    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am less concerned with TSA theft and a lot more with airline employee, ie baggage handlers, theft. There your bags are in backrooms, aircraft holds etc and there are fewer if any cameras.

    BTW I have heard horror stories of westerners buying up older Russian or Soviet coins and having them seized in customs when they were leaving the country. It is illegal to remove items older than 50 years from the country, but it happens all the time.
    In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I am less concerned with TSA theft and a lot more with airline employee, ie baggage handlers, theft. There your bags are in backrooms, aircraft holds etc and there are fewer if any cameras.

    BTW I have heard horror stories of westerners buying up older Russian or Soviet coins and having them seized in customs when they were leaving the country. It is illegal to remove items older than 50 years from the country, but it happens all the time. >>



    LOL! I scared the crap out of myself in Kiev a few years back! I bought a bunch of old large 5 kopecks from a street vender. He said no problems due to the quality. Well...I was in line after the 1st check going to the 2nd check. I'm thinking they are gonna see this things...all this with my tour guide telling me I can't take them out of the country and would hold them and send them to me when it was OK! My lightbulb lit up...I'll just stick them in my camera bag and protest what the x-rays will do to my film. After being bent over shuffling things around...I stood up when I was finished to see a security gaurd standing right beside me with his arms crossed...yikes! I play it cool and procede to the x-ray. I tried and tried to get them to not x-ray my camera. Well...after I realized it was a no go I tossed it onto the conveyer. Luckily for me it landed smack dab at the bottem between 2 large carry ons! Well.....I sat in the farthest corner of the airport bar just waiting to get nailed. I actually expected to be removed from the plane! BUT! I made it home. If they had detained me it would mean at the least a top priced 1 way ticket after loosing my flight.
  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have one more story with 2 PCGS coin holder in my caary on..... ONLY 2:

    Arrive at London heathrow on a Lufthansa flight from Rom via Frankfurt ( 2 time security already), to connect to Air Canada to Toronto.
    remember, already 2 security checks! No problem.
    after spending 2 hours in the Lounge, proceed to the gate.
    have to go through another check.
    there this 350 pound woman decided to search my bag and... wanted to know what is inside these 2 plastic containers besides the coins she can see. And she said: how do I know these coins are real coins and not hollow?
    well she had me right there. i said , perhaps you might want to run them through an xray machine.....
    wrong suggestion... as she felt i was questioning her authority.
    she made it very clear, suggesting the choices;
    take them and check them in (which would have been ok , but timing and she knew that)
    open up these plastic cases so she can see what is inside
    or
    go back out and mail them
    she made it very clear that these items will not go past her unless she sees inside!
    well know, i said to her word for word:
    please call you supervisor to attend.. and I do not care if I miss the flight or not..these plastics will NOT be broken open. they are sealed for a very specific purpose, namely to protect their integrity and the coins value.
    there is always the next flight, as I have a very flexible ticket.
    she the realized that I was serious and started to make small talk. my back was up and I insisted for a SV to attend.
    another woman arrived, looked at my ticket and Boarding Pass, went on the computer, came back, handed me the slabs and said: please accept my apologies, have a nice trip.
    I asked her why the change of attitude. her answer; I checked with Air Canada and you are good to go.......
    makes me think... what 350 pounds of attitude in the wrong place can do to someone who is not an experinced and FF flier with some recognition by the airline he / she is booked on???
    any suggestions how to handle this in the future, perhaps at an airport in the US of A???????
    I rest my case and say Good Luck...
    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • coinpicturescoinpictures Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭
    With all the additional "security" in the U.S. now (which is a freaking joke, don't get me started), they've had to hire a zillion more workers to do it, and it's all low-competence, minimum-wage, minimum intelligence former burger-slingers, that now have power/authority for the first times in their lives, so they get off on flexing it.

    We dare not "profile" likely targets based on ethnicity due to political correctness, but it's ok to physically molest children and senior citizens... all so it appears like something is actually being accomplished.

    Please.
  • wildjagwildjag Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭
    You will like Dallas much more than where you are at now, especially in the winter time.
  • worldcoinguyworldcoinguy Posts: 2,999 ✭✭✭✭
    Hey wildjag - I haven't seen you around here much lately. Hows life? Still visit Tim Hunter at the Greenhills show on occasion? If so, tell him I said hello.

    Thanks for the note on Dallas. I'm ready for the move but I think I will miss the pacific NW. I'm not ready to let go of the outdoors and scenery yet. This was taken last week looking east from the playground at my kids school when I dropped them off in the morning. I can honestly say this view never gets old. We sit up around 1000 feet and the valley was blanketed in an amazing layer of thick fog that looked like water. Tumbleweeds just dont have the same appeal yet.

    image
  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭✭✭
    as I said before.....
    I rest my case..as long as I have some sanity left...and, I am in Canada.
    they hire a bunch of East Indians, run them throug a few weels of "training' and let them loose with AUTHORITY...
    some of them barely know the English alphabet...
    I have a few more stories that happened throughout my (1,2 Million miles, 64 countries) air travels.
    unfortunately, Not coin related..
    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
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